Does a Selmer Mark VII baritone saxophone really exist?
When Selmer introduced the Mark VII’s in 1974, only altos and tenors ever made it into production. There were no bari or soprano Mark VIIs. Or were there?
The sighting of a Selmer Mark VII baritone is somewhat like a sighting of the Loch Ness monster: Stories are told of such a beast, but few have seen it, and even fewer have pictorial evidence of their encounter.
I for years was of the opinion that no Selmer Mark VII baritones existed, since that was what I was told by both my university and private instructors. And they should know, right? Furthermore, they were the ones who insisted that I rid myself of my nasty-sounding King Super 20 tenor, and get not the new, Mark VII alto and tenor, but rather the good, used Mark VIs I still have to this day.
What’s Selmer’s take on all of this?
This is what Selmer Paris states on their website about the model that was to be the Mark VI’s replacement:
Source: Selmer.fr
Note the last bullet point:
However, only the alto and tenor saxophones saw the light of day; the soprano and baritone “Mark VII” prototypes started during this period were instead used as the basis for the ”Super Action 80″ line.
Common wisdom would likely lead one to think therefore, that we wouldn’t see a such thing as a Mark VII baritone saxophone.
Well common wisdom be damned. Apparently the mythical Mark VII baritone saxophone is real—at least in limited numbers. (Just how many lake monsters do we have in the world?) Furthermore, I happen to have stumbled across a Japanese website that is selling one.
Since I can’t read Japanese, and Google Translate is horribly inaccurate, I can’t tell what kind of music store this is, but I think their name is Sound Fuga. (At least that is their domain name). Whenever I visit their website, I always lose track of time since I get lost in their many, many vintage saxophone offerings.
While trying not to drool too heavily onto my keyboard, I happened across this oddity: Selmer Mark VII baritone # 31XXX.
Source: soundfuga.jp
At first I thought it was a typo, but then as I started looking at the horn, I noticed some things that didn’t quite fit with a Mark VI. Most notably, the Mark VII engraving on the back of the bow to body tube connecting ring.
Source: soundfuga.jp
And the Mark VI logo on the front of the neck…
Source: soundfuga.jp
What this Mark VII baritone saxophone didn’t have, are the typical Mark VII spatula pinkie keys for the right and left hands that Selmer introduced, and what so many Mark VI players hated…
Source: soundfuga.jp
Source: soundfuga.jp
Some thoughts about the Selmer Mark VII baritone saxophone
Although you would think Selmer would know its own history, time and time again we have seen this not to be the case. Perhaps nothing is more glaring than the company not knowing when its Mark VI production actually started.
According to Selmer’s official serial # chart—called the Sax Legend—Mark VI production began in 1954 with serial # 59000. However, according to this 1962 print ad I noticed on eBay, Selmer then said it was #53727. (I wrote an article about this if you’re interested.)
Given this history, I’m not so convinced that Selmer knows what actually happened to its prototype Mark VII baritone saxophones. Bari #31XXXX would indicate that at least one, and likely more, made it out of the Selmer factory, and swam with the big boys in the general saxophone population.
If I could speculate wildly for a moment, the backwards facing model stamping on the bow to body connecting ring may tell us something. Normally, if a horn has such stamping, and not all do, the model stamping faces forward on the bell to bow connecting ring, like it does on this Mark VI tenor #103451.
Source: The Sax Group on eBay.com
This change in location might be, and I stress might be, an indication that the Selmer Mark VII baritone saxophone in question was not a regular production horn, but rather a prototype, since other Mark VIIs have their model stamping facing forwards. The backwards facing stamping might be what signifies this as a prototype.
The lack of enlarged spatula keys also indicates that this in no way is true-blue Mark VII. Although we don’t know if there were bore changes over the Mark VI, Selmer did not build this as a late-model Mark VI baritone.
If you would like to be the proud owner of saxophone equivalent of the Loch Ness monster, you’re in luck, this Selmer Mark VII baritone saxophone is currently on sale. It can be yours for the low, low, 
price of only ¥ 680,000, which xe.com estimates to be $6,092.28 US. That’s a savings of ¥40,000 ($ 358.35 US) off its regular price.
Even if you’re not interested in buying it, it’s worth a look at this interesting horn just to see the photographic evidence that yes, these mythical beasties to indeed exist.
Hi,
I, too, have a Selmer Mk7 bari sax serial # 3119xx. I bought it in 2017 from a private seller from Tasmania who found it in his estranged, deceased father’s attic (along with a MKVI tenor which he was keeping – what a find!). It looks identical to my friend’s Mk6 bari in terms of key configuration and design, bore, bell size, engraving etc except for: M7 logo on the neck shield, MARK VII engraving on the back bow ring, F# key. The F# key seems to be a bit of an afterthought as the rod doesn’t have the same precision fit as the other key rods and, unlike the others which are clear lacquered over brass, appears to have a nickle plating giving it a dull silver look. It’s an awesome horn with a great action and huge sound when paired with my Lawton 8* mp.
Hi there Mike.
Thanks for this. Yes, the Mark VII bari was most definitely a real animal–albeit arguably, among one of the rarest Selmers produced.
I love my Mark VI bari. If I had found a VII, I would have bought it. These are very interesting horns with a very unique place in the history of Selmer Paris.
Hi,
I’m currently researching the history of my Selmer barisax… and think it might be a Mark VII. Serial number 289894. There is no low A key.
U know approx. the value of this beauty?
Wether Mark VII or not, it’s wonderful to play and has a great sound 🙂
More pics of the sax
One final pic of the sax
I have just bought a Selmer MkVII baritone serial number like the Japanese one 311xxx – so
1980 production just before Super 80. . It has Mark VII stamped on back ring of the body facing backwards and the crook is also marked with a 7. It has high F# and Low A. Needs a complete repad so
Hopefully it will play great when finished and I can compare it to my 1967 Mark VI
Just a follow up on my previous post on the Mark VII baritone. It has been serviced and plays great!
I have to say it feels just like my 1968 MkVI baritone with the exception of the added top F# key.
So it really is a 1980 production MkVI stamped with MkVII on the bow ring and neck!
A wonderful find. – not only a great horn but as a rarity possibly of interest to collectors!
Hey there Ric. That’s great to hear.
I must admit I [not so] secretly covet a low A Mark VI. There are so many times a low A bari would come in handy, and truthfully the B&S Medusa that I have was great for R&B and rock, but just doesn’t fit the part for what I do now.
In big band and pit work this particular Medusa is just too big and raunchy in tone. I have tried taming it with MPs, but all I get is a slightly tamer, but still raunchy bari that does not fit the part of section or pit player.
If the opportunity for one of these Mark VII baris came up, I might take it, but we have implemented a new rule in the house: For every new horn that comes in, at least one has to go out. I would be fine with letting the Medusa go, but to make up the $ difference, I would have to part with at least another one or 2 of my babies, and I’m not sure which those would be. I’m quite fond of the horns I have, and I’m not sure that any of them deserve to be sold off in order to make room for yet another piece of heavy metal.
Enjoy your Mark VII bari Ric. It is indeed a rarity. I believe in nearly 20+ years of researching vintage saxes I have come across maybe 3 of them.
I aslo have a Selmer basritone sax with the Low A made in paris france. I waas advised the serial number is to late to be a Matrk VI and it dosnt have the Mark VI stamp on the neck.
Is this a Mark VII? serial number 276622
Hi John. Welcome to my website.
Your horn’s serial # is not too high to be a Mark VI. Mark VI production continued on into the beginning of the Mark VII production run. For example, check out some of these sopranos in my gallery that have serial #’s into the 3XXXXXs.
Furthermore, just the other day my tech was overhauling a Mark VI that wasn’t stamped “Mark VI”, yet it clearly was one. That horn was not even a late model horn. This leads me to suspect that Selmer was at times sloppy with their stamping/engraving.
As for your bari, if you would like to send me some photos, I would gladly help you positively ID it. Given how few true Mark VII baris there are in the world, I suspect that what you have is simply a late-model Mark VI.
Send me some good, clear, large images of all the key areas, and I can tell you what you have.
Hope this helps….helen
Hi Helen
My apologies for the late response. I’ll go ahead and get some photos of the horn to upload. I appreciate your taking your time to look into this for me. I’ve been researching this for a while and it’s still kinda confusing to me as to what this horn is.
Another shot
Hi Helen.
I’m from Tasmania in Australia. My father was a small time muso in the 70’s and I myself have learnt a little sax back in school. I’m now 40 and my estranged father recently passed. He had nothing to his name except for his two sax’s. The Tenor is a beautiful Selmer that I have always known he owned. A great piece but the surprise that showed up was a Bari that had been hidden away for years. I was googling it and your post came up first. It is indeed a Mark VII Bari according to the stamp on it. Being a novice I’m not sure if you would like some shots of it. I don’t know it’s worth but I did just take it to a repair fellow to see if it needed any work. He pretty much jumped out of his skin when he saw it. It’s in great condition and working perfectly. If it is the Loch Ness of Sax’s I find it so strange my dad owned it.
I’m sorry to hear of your dad’s passing Paul. Losing a parent is never easy, but it is nice that you are able to share the love that your father had for his saxophones.
So you too have on the Loch Ness Monsters of the saxophone world. Take good care of both of your Selmers. They are currently the only saxophones in the world that appreciate in value.
I hope you continue to enjoy and play them. They are truly a special brand of saxophone, and in this case both horns are more even more special, because they belonged to your dad. If you haven’t seen the article I wrote about saxophones as family heirlooms, perhaps something in it might resonate with you as well.
Another picture
Hello there,
Send you a picture of my Mk VII stamped low A bari sax.
She has #267xxx serial number (1977), and only one M7 stamp on the neck. No other stamps on her boddy or connecting rings.
As far as I can say, it is a true Mk VI sax, keyworks, bore, sound…and further more, still as far as I know, Selmer never designed nor developped nor built Mk VII matrices or tools to manufacture baritones (neither sopranes or bass saxes).
I can send more other detailed pictures, if you think it would be helpfull to better know those monsters.
Hi Oliver. I’m sorry I missed your comment to this article. I’m just trying to play catch-up ATM, and found this.
I don’t know if you’re following this comment, but if you are, yes, please do send me some photos of your sax. I would be most interested to see how it compares to the one that the Japanese shop had for sale.
Any photos you have can be sent to: bassic.sax.ca@gmail.com
Thanks! …. helen
Howard Johnson plays a MKVII Bari which he bought in 1980
Two more: http://saxpics.com/the_gallery/selmer/mark_vii/bari/lacquer
There were also some Mark VII sopranos, sopraninos, and low A altos. I have some more pics archived elsewhere.
Selmer is not very good at keeping track of their models. “We never made curved sopranos.” There’s now a curved soprano on their website. “We never made C instruments.” I’ve seen a couple C melodies and one C soprano.
As far as this Mark VII bari is concerned, the real question would be, “Is the bore different?” The keywork isn’t that big of a change. FWIW, considering that the Mark VI isn’t necessarily the best bari that Selmer has ever made, it might not make too much difference. I’d love to hear the difference between this Mark VII, a VI with a close serial number, and a VI smack in the middle of the 5-digit serial number years, but I’ve only played one VI bari and it only went down to low Bb. Nice horn, though.