{"id":121,"date":"2008-05-26T09:00:32","date_gmt":"2008-05-26T16:00:32","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/bassic-sax.info\/blog\/?p=121"},"modified":"2009-08-14T22:08:42","modified_gmt":"2009-08-15T05:08:42","slug":"121","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/bassic-sax.info\/blog\/2008\/121\/","title":{"rendered":"Mark VIs, Post Modernism, Flamers,  and the Kitchen Sink"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Nothing will get you flamed faster on some\u00a0saxophone forums\u00a0then saying you play a Mark VI, or even worse, saying you love your Mark VI. I don&#8217;t know what it is with these flamers. Do they suffer from\u00a0some kind of weird Selmer envy? It can&#8217;t be\u00a0that simple can it can it? I\u00a0don&#8217;t know&#8230;These faceless,\u00a0pseudo-named\u00a0people, with highly unproven, if not outright questionable knowledge and skills,\u00a0(and I suspect, very little, if any first hand playing experience with said horn) lashing out at people they don&#8217;t know, for expressing their views, opinions, or feelings about saxophones they own.<\/p>\n<p>I&#8217;ve been on sax discussion boards of one kind or another for 10 years now. And while their names may change, or in some cases haven&#8217;t,\u00a0and their tactics may have become a bit more underhanded as moderators and administrators of discussion boards police the\u00a0forums with a heavier hand to prevent\u00a0the destruction of a virtual community, the flamers&#8217;\u00a0general\u00a0message remains the same:\u00a0Mark VIs suck; Mark VI players suck;\u00a0I&#8217;d never get a\u00a0Mark VI because they suck. Blah, blah, blah&#8230;You\u00a0get the idea. Anything having to do with a Mark VI sucks. The maturity level of their argument provides an insight into either their actual ages, or at least their developmental level.<\/p>\n<p>I don&#8217;t mean to imply\u00a0in anyway that this attitude is held by the majority of players who\u00a0frequent discussion boards, because\u00a0this is not the case at all.\u00a0But I do think there are\u00a0just\u00a0enough of these little flamers around\u00a0to\u00a0screw\u00a0things up. I think they are just destructive little cretins who have\u00a0decided to hang out\u00a0with the\u00a0big kids in\u00a0the type of anonymity\u00a0that only the\u00a0Internet will allow.<\/p>\n<p>Before we could access the Internet for opinions on saxophone brands and models, we relied on our teachers, the people in the music stores, and what we could\u00a0determine for ourselves based on play testing (which was of course entirely dependent on our own skill level and knowledge). Most people\u00a0over the age of\u00a030, most likely got their first pro model horn based on\u00a0the recommendations of their instructor (private or\u00a0university level).<\/p>\n<p>That was certainly true for me. My first\u00a0private teacher played a Mark VI, so did my 2nd, as did my 3rd, 4th, 5th, &amp; 6th. Guess what&#8230;I play Mark VIs. No big surprise. Now that I&#8217;ve played these horns for more than 20 years, I&#8217;m comfortable with them, and they feel like they are just a\u00a0part of me. I&#8217;ve played\u00a0the new Series\u00a0III\u00a0tenor as well as\u00a0a Reference 54, a Series\u00a0II bari, as well as a Series II and III soprano. I like them fine. Nothing wrong with any of them. But I still wouldn&#8217;t trade my old guys for any one them. Is it familiarity that keeps me with my VIs? Probably to a degree. But I also happen to know that not one of my VIs\u00a0is one of those &#8220;dogs&#8221; we occasionally hear about. They all kick serious ass. I&#8217;m lucky. I&#8217;ve got great horns, so why would I trade them?<\/p>\n<p>Having said that, when my students are ready to make the leap to a pro model horn, and ask me what kind of horn to get, I get a bit of a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach. I hate answering that question because there really is no right answer. There are so many good horns out there at the moment. As an advancing player making the transition to pro horn you really need to take your time, literally play a 100 horns if you can, take copious notes (OK, I&#8217;m anal, I admit it!) and then make an informed decision together with your instructor (if you&#8217;ve got one).<\/p>\n<p>A few years ago one of my students in Fredericton said he wanted to get a Mark VI and a Dukoff so he could sound just like me. I told him that that probably wouldn&#8217;t happen. Besides, his band teacher\u00a0would probably phone me and say: Helen, what were you thinking?&#8230; A Dukoff&#8230;In high school!&#8230;I told my student\u00a0that I would sound like me\u00a0on anything I played, and he would sound like himself on whatever he played.\u00a0To show him what I was talking about, I then played his horn, with his reed,\u00a0his mouthpiece, and sounded&#8230;well&#8230;much like myself. I\u00a0told him&#8230;In a\u00a0small\u00a0part, it&#8217;s the gear&#8230;In\u00a0larger part it&#8217;s the player&#8230;And the wild card&#8230;It&#8217;s attitude. For me, attitude in a player is a perfect combination of gear, the player, together with the approach the player takes. These\u00a03 together, in perfect sync, provide the attitude: and a player&#8217;s attitude has to change based on the style they are playing ie: rock vs classical vs jazz vs blues.<\/p>\n<p>Getting back to Mark VIs: Why Selmer Mark VIs became the\u00a0favorite of\u00a0the pros of the day in the past could be a\u00a0Master&#8217;s thesis, if not a PhD dissertation, so I really won&#8217;t even\u00a0attempt to\u00a0do it is justice here. I&#8217;ll only mention the obvious.\u00a0Back in the 50s, and arguably even earlier, Selmer became <strong><em>the<\/em><\/strong> choice of pros.\u00a0Most of\u00a0the big names were using them. (Getz, 5\u00a0digit&#8230;need I say more?)\u00a0Much like today, young players wanted to emulate the pros and\u00a0thus ended up with Mark VIs.\u00a0These young players then went on to become pros and teachers and we then studied with them.\u00a0Many of us then ended up with Mark VIs because that&#8217;s what\u00a0our teachers\u00a0played. Fast forward 20 years and\u00a0the world is a different place.<\/p>\n<p>Selmer no longer has a strangle hold on the pro sax market. European saxophone manufacturers are in financial trouble, and some are ceasing production of their pro horns and are moving production of their student model horns to countries where production costs are lower (eg: B&amp;S). Cheaper Asian makes and models are flooding the market in ever-greater numbers. Hand craftsmanship has been replaced by automation. Serious students who study either privately or at university, will most likely still listen more closely to their instructors, but for those learning without the benefit of instructors, (who used to flounder by themselves) the electronic age has ushered in a world-wide source of information and misinformation: Discussion forums are everywhere. Saxophone manufacturers have websites. Music store choices are no longer limited to brick and mortar stores within driving distance of your home. It&#8217;s the perfect exemplification of post modernity.<\/p>\n<p>The Internet seems to be a double-edged sword for the Mark VI. On one hand the Internet is spreading the &#8220;Mark VI mystique&#8221; far and wide and is moving the mythology of the horn from the oral tradition to the written one (if one considers the\u00a0virtual world\u00a0written tradition).\u00a0On the other hand, the Internet is\u00a0in part what is\u00a0fueling the climb in the horn&#8217;s\u00a0increasing value, which the higher it\u00a0goes, is putting it further and further out of reach of the average\u00a0working musician.\u00a0Today the only people who\u00a0can afford to buy a Mark VI are those that are collectors, and\/or those of means. The average working pro making $100\/session or a night playing isn&#8217;t rushing out to buy that Mark VI on eBay.<\/p>\n<p>Only time will tell if the Mark VIs will maintain their value in the future, but for now,\u00a0their mystique\u00a0shows no signs of fading into the\u00a0twilight.<\/p>\n<div style=\"width:500px;margin:0px auto;text-align:left;border:0px solid #25e925;padding:10px;\">\n<div style=\"float:right;width:285px;margin-top:10px;margin-bottom:10px;margin-left:10px;padding-bottom:10px;font-family:Arial, Helvetica, Georgia;font-size: 28px;line-height:24px; color:#AAFF66; text-align: right;\">    &#8230;this is just <span style=\"color:#fe4899;\">my <em>blog<\/em>. <\/span><span style=\"color:#66aaff\"> My <b>\u201creal\u201d <\/b> website is<\/span> <a href=\"http:\/\/www.bassic-sax.info\">www.bassic-sax.info.<\/a> <span style=\"color:#66aaff\">If you\u2019re looking for <\/span> <span style=\"color:#fe4899;\"> <strong>sax info<\/strong>,<\/span> you should <span style=\"color:#aaff66\">check it out too.<\/span><span style=\"color:#fe4899;\">There\u2019s <em>lots<\/em> there! <\/span>\n<\/div>\n<div style=\"clear:both;\"><\/div>\n<p><\/DIV><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Nothing will get you flamed faster on some\u00a0saxophone forums\u00a0then saying you play a Mark VI, or even worse, saying you love your Mark VI. I &hellip;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"ngg_post_thumbnail":0,"footnotes":"","jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false},"categories":[18],"tags":[149,69,633,629,29,643,31],"class_list":["post-121","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-musings","tag-french-saxophones","tag-mark-vi-mystique","tag-musings","tag-selmer","tag-selmer-mark-vi","tag-vintage-horns","tag-vintage-sax"],"aioseo_notices":[],"aioseo_head":"\n\t\t<!-- All in One SEO 5.0.5 - aioseo.com -->\n\t<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Nothing will get you flamed faster on some saxophone forums then saying you play a Mark VI, or even worse, saying you love your Mark VI. I don&#039;t know what it is with these flamers. Do they suffer from some kind of weird Selmer envy? It can&#039;t be that simple can it can it? 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