{"id":152,"date":"2008-06-01T10:44:53","date_gmt":"2008-06-01T17:44:53","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/bassic-sax.info\/blog\/?p=152"},"modified":"2009-08-14T22:01:43","modified_gmt":"2009-08-15T05:01:43","slug":"vintage-or-modern-choices-choices-choices","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/bassic-sax.info\/blog\/2008\/vintage-or-modern-choices-choices-choices\/","title":{"rendered":"Vintage Or Modern: Choices, Choices, Choices"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>When it comes to choosing a pro horn, there are literally hundreds of makes and models to choose from if one is open to either vintage or modern saxophones.<\/p>\n<p>Anyone who knows me, or has visited my <a href=\"http:\/\/www.bassic-sax.info\/gear.html\" target=\"_self\">website,<\/a> knows that my inclination lies\u00a0towards vintage horns. I didn&#8217;t really make that choice consciously to begin with: it\u00a0just happened 20+ years ago when I acquired my first pro level horn. I should note, that when I got my first used Mark VI (my tenor)\u00a0in 1981, it was about 9 years old, so it wouldn&#8217;t have been considered &#8220;vintage&#8221; at the time.\u00a0I should also note, that\u00a0there are those in the saxophone playing world\u00a0who don&#8217;t consider\u00a0any\u00a0Selmer\u00a0Mark VI vintage at all, since\u00a0that model\u00a0heralded the change in ergonomics that would forever change\u00a0all makes and models of saxophones that followed. However,\u00a0that&#8217;s a topic for another day. So for today, let&#8217;s just go with the Mark VI as being vintage by virtue of its age, OK?<\/p>\n<p>Over the past 10 years, the saxophones I\u00a0have sought out, are of the vintage variety. I am drawn to them for an inexplicable reason: it certainly isn&#8217;t their stellar ergonomics. Vintage saxophones are not for everyone. They can be finicky beasts with temperamental dispositions that require patience &amp;\u00a0greater embouchure control, and thus are not the\u00a0best choice for beginning or even all \u00a0intermediate\u00a0students.<\/p>\n<p>Just as an aside, for\u00a0my students\u00a0just starting out (especially\u00a0young ones in school), I never recommend a used vintage pro horn, despite the fact that many of them can be found at the same price point, or less, than a\u00a0new student or intermediate model horn. For my young newbies I usually suggest a\u00a0good, used YAS 23\u00a0or\u00a0YTS 23\u00a0if they can find one. Although I personally don&#8217;t like the Yamaha brand for myself, the student model horns are easy to\u00a0get a sound from because they have very little resistance compared to vintage horns, and they are\u00a0incredibly\u00a0easy to play in tune (something that\u00a0vintage horns sometimes seem to not want to do at all).<\/p>\n<p>Vintage saxophones, much like vintage anything, have a unique quality about them. I think it\u00a0has something to do with the fact that these objects have a history. Someone else owned them before we did. Many of\u00a0them existed before we were born. Used musical instruments have a mystique about them that goes one step further than mere history. Music is something that&#8217;s\u00a0&#8220;alive&#8221;. It&#8217;s in the\u00a0&#8220;moment&#8221;.\u00a0It\u00a0can enhance moods, settings experiences, feelings, memories, sensations, and almost every human emotion.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>When I look at a vintage musical instrument I always wonder: Who played you? Where did you get played? Who listened to you?\u00a0\u00a0What kind of stories could you tell if you could talk?<\/p>\n<p>When I experience the tactile\u00a0sensation of holding\u00a0that\u00a0same\u00a0musical\u00a0instrument,\u00a0at that moment I wish I had a more active imagination, or\u00a0real psychic ability (think Patricia Arquette in <a href=\"http:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Medium_(TV_series)\" target=\"_blank\">Medium<\/a>)\u00a0,\u00a0and could actually\u00a0feel some of the history that this\u00a0instrument was part of.<\/p>\n<p>If the musical instrument is a saxophone, and I take this tactile experience to\u00a0its fullest level and actually play the horn, I really wish that I\u00a0had a psychic ability to\u00a0see some of where this horn has played in the\u00a0past. But alas, I don&#8217;t. And perhaps that is a good thing.\u00a0Due to my &#8220;limitations&#8221;\u00a0my romanticized version of events is intact,\u00a0because nothing would be more depressing than\u00a0feeling\/seeing\/sensing\/whatever a wonderful old horn being\u00a0groped by a bunch of middle school students year after\u00a0year after year. I prefer to\u00a0think that the saxophone in my hands might have been the one\u00a0that was played\u00a0in the\u00a0swing band\u00a0where 2\u00a0people met, fell in love, and\u00a0lived their lives together. Wow&#8230;Am I romanticizing or what?&#8230;<\/p>\n<p>All romanticizing aside, vintage horns do have a lot going for them. Many of them, Selmer Mark VIs not withstanding, are actually much more accessible financially than modern horns. It only takes 5 minutes on the Internet to find many, many good used vintage pro horns that are affordable. It just depends on what you are looking for. One of\u00a0course has to be very careful of condition. That&#8217;s why I alway like to buy my horns\u00a0on-line from a reputable dealer, and there are\u00a0a number of them\u00a0out there. Do your homework, and it won&#8217;t take you long to figure out who they\u00a0are.\u00a0This way you know what you&#8217;re getting. No surprises.\u00a0eBay can be a bit of a crap shoot for this reason. While there\u00a0are reputable dealers on eBay, there are many more that are very questionable. For example, just a couple of weeks ago a seller would have been happy to sell you a &#8220;new&#8221; bass saxophone for $10,000. (Red flag number 1 &#8220;new&#8221;. Red flag number 2 &#8220;$10,000&#8221;.) And the best part of all: the photo in the ad was of a 1920s Conn. (Red flag number 3.) I hope no one ended up jumping at that\u00a0auction in the end, and\u00a0I also\u00a0 don&#8217;t know if eBay was notified and pulled it or what. But these type of sellers are all over eBay, and some do manage to slip through the cracks.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>Over the years I have managed to accumulate a number of vintage horns (13 at last count, I think), and they all have something in common: They\u00a0share a complexity, depth, and breadth\u00a0in sound that I do not hear in the\u00a0modern horns of today. This is as\u00a0true of the soprano as it is of the baritone, and all sizes in between.\u00a0(Can&#8217;t comment on new bass saxophones because I haven&#8217;t had the chance to hear one.) Why\u00a0the tonal difference vintage versus modern I can&#8217;t say for sure. Many people have speculated wildly about this though:<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>There are those that say\u00a0it&#8217;s just\u00a0not the case at all, and those of us that hear a difference, are imagining it. OK&#8230;Whatever&#8230;<\/li>\n<li>Some say that it is due to the aging process of the metal. OK&#8230;I can see wooden instruments aging, but metal? I don&#8217;t know&#8230;Where&#8217;s that metallurgist when you need him?&#8230;<\/li>\n<li>There are those that say that the composition of the metal that makes up saxophones has been experimented with over the past 100 years, and so different makers had different mixes&#8230;I think we&#8217;re getting somewhere now&#8230;<\/li>\n<li>There is no denying that vintage horns are on the whole much heavier than the horns of today. Metal composition plays a role here too, but common sense would dictate that a heavier horn would sound different than a lighter weight one.<\/li>\n<li>Set ups vary greatly. How your tech sets your horn up for you, the pads, resos, etc used, combined with the mouthpiece &amp;\u00a0reed combo you select will go a long way obviously. You can make that 1920s c melody sound authentic, or you can alter its sound so much so, that it is unrecognizable and will be neither fish nor fowl.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>The point at the end: listen and determine for yourself if you hear a difference between vintage and modern saxophones. If you have the chance to try some vintage horns, play them. Play lots of them. See what you think.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>Without\u00a0writing an entire thesis, although\u00a0this post is starting to look like one \ud83d\ude09 ,\u00a0these are the reasons I&#8217;ve chosen vintage over modern horns, and am very willing to work with their quirks, idiosyncrasies, and ergonomic challenges.\u00a0I notice a complexity of sound that I prefer in vintage horns, that I do not find in their modern cousins. Vintage horns have a mystique\u00a0to them that begins when you open their old style cases, and smell the &#8220;old horn\u00a0smell&#8221;.\u00a0And because they are &#8220;old&#8221;, good deals can be found at yard sales, flea markets, Craig&#8217;s List, and even\u00a0antique malls and auctions, etc. etc..\u00a0The fact that\u00a0most times they are no longer\u00a0shiny, makes\u00a0vintage horns\u00a0less\u00a0desirable in the eyes of the seller. This is why I was able to\u00a0pick up\u00a0my <a href=\"http:\/\/www.bassic-sax.info\/huttl.html\" target=\"_self\">H\u00fcttl<\/a> for\u00a0$175. And if you&#8217;re like me,\u00a0the hunt is sometimes the most enjoyable part of the process.\u00a0\u00a0<\/p>\n<div style=\"width:500px;margin:0px auto;text-align:left;border:0px solid #25e925;padding:10px;\">\n<div style=\"float:right;width:285px;margin-top:10px;margin-bottom:10px;margin-left:10px;padding-bottom:10px;font-family:Arial, Helvetica, Georgia;font-size: 28px;line-height:24px; color:#AAFF66; text-align: right;\">    &#8230;this is just <span style=\"color:#fe4899;\">my <em>blog<\/em>. <\/span><span style=\"color:#66aaff\"> My <b>\u201creal\u201d <\/b> website is<\/span> <a href=\"http:\/\/www.bassic-sax.info\">www.bassic-sax.info.<\/a> <span style=\"color:#66aaff\">If you\u2019re looking for <\/span> <span style=\"color:#fe4899;\"> <strong>sax info<\/strong>,<\/span> you should <span style=\"color:#aaff66\">check it out too.<\/span><span style=\"color:#fe4899;\">There\u2019s <em>lots<\/em> there! <\/span>\n<\/div>\n<div style=\"clear:both;\"><\/div>\n<p><\/DIV><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>When it comes to choosing a pro horn, there are literally hundreds of makes and models to choose from if one is open to either &hellip;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"ngg_post_thumbnail":0,"footnotes":"","jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false},"categories":[78],"tags":[623,629,29,643,31],"class_list":["post-152","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-vintage-horns","tag-huttl","tag-selmer","tag-selmer-mark-vi","tag-vintage-horns","tag-vintage-sax"],"aioseo_notices":[],"aioseo_head":"\n\t\t<!-- All in One SEO 5.0.5 - aioseo.com -->\n\t<meta name=\"description\" content=\"When it comes to choosing a pro horn, there are literally hundreds of makes and models to choose from if one is open to either vintage or modern saxophones. 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