{"id":46448,"date":"2017-12-22T11:39:50","date_gmt":"2017-12-22T19:39:50","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/bassic-sax.info\/blog\/?p=46448"},"modified":"2024-06-25T09:06:27","modified_gmt":"2024-06-25T16:06:27","slug":"olds-super-tenor-a-progress-report","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/bassic-sax.info\/blog\/2017\/olds-super-tenor-a-progress-report\/","title":{"rendered":"Olds Super Tenor: A Progress Report"},"content":{"rendered":"

My Olds Super tenor<\/a> as been at David’s shop for just over a couple of weeks now, and he is working hard at restoring this beauty to its original glory. Before David took it apart, I noodled around on the horn as best as I could for him, demonstrating the tone of this unique instrument. Based on what it sounded like in its leaking, mouldy state\u2014with my Dukoff S7 MP, and my L\u00e9g\u00e8re Signature Series reeds\u2014we discussed my pad and reso options.<\/p>\n

\"saxophone<\/a>
Source: musicmedic.com<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n
\"Reso-Tech<\/a>
Source: reso-tech.us<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n

I opted to go with black roo pads and flat, sterling silver, Reso-Tech resonators<\/a> that are a bit oversized\u2014since they are for a Selmer Mark VI bari. The look and sound should be stunning when complete.<\/p>\n

The horn will also be getting new springs. Since I’m not a fan of blue needle springs, we’re going with piano wire.<\/p>\n

I took my camera with me, and snapped a whole bunch of pics that will eventually get incorporated into the upcoming Olds Super pages for my website. In the meantime, they might be of interest to those following the thread<\/a> I started on the brand on SOTW, and for anyone else who has an interest into arguably the most beautiful\u2014certainly the most Art Deco\u2014saxophone ever designed.<\/p>\n

Some interesting & unique features of the Olds Super<\/h3>\n

The “engraving”<\/h4>\n

\"Olds<\/a>One of the most Art Deco features of the horn, is the bell engraving… But not so fast… It is not engraving at all.<\/p>\n

This is something I noticed while at WWS. When I first picked the tenor up out of its stand, I noticed the bell seemed a bit flatter on the right side. At first I thought the horn had had some dent work done.<\/p>\n

However, when I compared it to the Olds Super alto that Chadd had already completed a restoration on, I found the same flatness on the alto bell’s right side. It turns out that the engraving isn’t engraving at all.<\/p>\n

The word Olds appears to have been stamped, rather than engraved on the bell of these instruments. It would seem that Olds\u2014or whoever made them if you believe that they were outsourced\u2014did not employ any engravers.<\/p>\n

Inline tone holes<\/h4>\n

Since I only play vintage horns, I don’t get too caught up in what kind of key mechanisms a horn has, or whether the horn has inline or offset tone holes. With offset tone holes<\/a>, the right hand tone holes are closer to the player\u2019s hand, thus making the horn more ergonomic.<\/p>\n

However, before Selmer came up with the idea to move the right hand tone holes closer to the player’s hand in the late 1940s1<\/sup>, having all the tone holes line up one under another was the norm. The Olds Super (circa 1940) is still from the era when inline tone holes was standard.<\/p>\n

\"Tone-Hole-&-Post-Details\" <\/a> <\/div> <\/div>
\"Bell-to-Body-Support-Brace\" <\/a> <\/div> <\/div>
\"Tone-Hole-&-Post-Details-4\" <\/a> <\/div> <\/div> <\/div> <\/div>\n

Speaking of tone holes…<\/h4>\n

According to a few different Martin aficionados and repair techs, although bevelled, the Olds Super’s tone holes do not resemble any that Martin produced.<\/p>\n

Now I must confess, as much as I love my Martin Handcraft tenor<\/a>, and my Committee III bari<\/a>, I have never done an in-depth study of Martin tone holes. The above-noted thread on SOTW really was an eye-opener for me about how many different styles of tone holes Martin manufactured.<\/p>\n

However, the Olds has tone holes that look nothing like Martin, or any other manufacturer’s bevelled tone holes.<\/p>\n

\"Front-View-Upper-Portion-Inline-Tone-Holes\" <\/a> <\/div> <\/div> <\/div>
\"Tone-Hole-&-Post-Details-2\" <\/a> <\/div> <\/div>
\"Tone-Hole-&-Post-Details-3\" <\/a> <\/div> <\/div>
\"Front-View-Lower-Portion-Inline-Tone-Holes\" <\/a> <\/div> <\/div> <\/div> <\/div>\n

Keys<\/h4>\n

Speaking of features that resemble no other manufacturer’s, the keys on the Olds Super are one of this brand’s most defining features. The have a circular indent, much as we would see on a flute. These dimples too are one of this brand’s most defining, and beautiful features.<\/p>\n

\"Keys-7\" <\/a> <\/div> <\/div>
\"Keys-8\" <\/a> <\/div>
\"Keys-1\" <\/a> <\/div> <\/div> <\/div>
\"Keys-3\" <\/a> <\/div> <\/div>
\"Keys-2\" <\/a> <\/div> <\/div> <\/div> <\/div>\n

This is what this dimple looks like in the key cup.<\/p>\n

\"Olds<\/a><\/p>\n

While photographing this key cup, I noticed what I presume must be a part number on the key. It’s worth nothing that this key is the only one with such a number on it that I could see.<\/p>\n

I wonder what 20T refers to? Why are not all keys numbered? Does an alto have an A stamped on it? So many questions…<\/p>\n

\"Olds<\/a><\/p>\n

Not your average roller<\/h4>\n

I’m not sure anymore if it was David, Chadd, or I who first noticed this, but the rollers on the Olds Super tenor sax appear to be made of ivory.<\/p>\n

\"Keys-4\" <\/a> <\/div> <\/div>
\"Keys-9\" <\/a> <\/div> <\/div> <\/div> <\/div>\n

This goes along with the general opulence that the horn has. Even the pearls<\/a> are not the same old, same old. Unfortunately they do not photograph well, but they have a green\/blue hue to them that I have not seen before on any sax I have held in my hands.<\/p>\n

Octave key mechanism ala Hammerschmidt<\/h4>\n

Having owned Hammerschmidt saxophones for more than a decade now, I am intimately familiar with their wishbone-style octave key mechanism<\/a>. And while other companies such as Dolnet<\/a>, and even A.E. Sax<\/a> and some early Selmers<\/a>, may have used this wishbone-style octave mechanism, one thing that I immediately noticed about the Olds Super is that its octave key mechanism design<\/a> was pretty much identical to those we see on the German-made Hammerschmidts<\/a>.<\/p>\n

\"Olds<\/a><\/p>\n

Furthermore, the left thumb rest and octave key lever<\/a> are basically the same shape on the Olds Super as they are on the Hammerschmidt<\/a>.<\/p>\n

I am not suggesting that Hammerschmidt made the Olds Super. (Although Hammerschmidt did make horns with bevelled, not just rolled tone holes, but I digress…)<\/p>\n

Some crazy speculation, and some actual empirical facts<\/h4>\n

1. Since Olds was not a saxophone manufacturer, it is possible that they outsourced some of the part production to other companies. These companies could have manufactured the parts\u2014which were designed in consultation with employees at Olds\u2014and then shipped said parts to the Olds factory in Los Angeles. The saxophones could have then been assembled in LA by Olds employees.<\/p>\n

2. As some very learned techs have pointed out on the SOTW thread, the Olds Super and the Committee II are nearly identical in many respects. This is how experienced vintage sax tech, Jorns Bergenson<\/a>, described these 2 instruments:<\/p>\n

Helen, there are not are just few similarities between these horns. Most of the important stuff is exactly the same. Same design made with the same machinery. I don’t want to come on too strong here with my opinions but I’ve had a Super and a Comm II side by side and to me they are basically the same horn. There was no doubt in my mind. More facts that point to this:<\/p>\n