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<\/a>With bari prices has expensive as they are, players coming to bari for the first time might be tempted to try something a little cheaper, therefore older, and in worse repair.<\/p>\nThis is where today’s two Buffet Crampon Evette & Schaeffer baris come in. If we had a saxophone show, like they have dog shows, neither of these would ever take home a Best In Show. Hell, these two would be disqualified because of their limping. \ud83d\ude09<\/p>\n
Now before you think I’m being too hard on either the sellers or the baris that they’re selling, just try to keep an open mind, and read this article to its conclusion. I promise you it is salient to today’s reality of the saxophone market.<\/p>\n
Antique vs. vintage in sax land<\/h3>\n
Before we go any further, let’s refresh our memory and differentiate between vintage and antique. In collector’s circles, an antique is generally regarded as an object made 100 years ago or older. Vintage is a bit more slippery. In saxophone land, vintage generally means a pro<\/strong> <\/em>horn made pre-1980s.<\/p>\n To help you make sense of when these Buffet baris were made, you can use Mike Duchstein\u2019s serial number chart.<\/a><\/p>\n Enter Buffet Crampon Evette Schaeffer bari 10XXX<\/a>. It is being sold by a music store in Cuyahoga Falls, Ohio.<\/p>\n The store describes the bari this way:<\/p>\n This listing is for a Eb baritone sax made by the Buffet Company of France. It is the famous “Evette-Scaeffer” model. The serial number is in the 10XXX series placing production in 1894. This saxophone is being sold “AS IS”. It needs a complete restoration including removal of dents, refitting of keys, cleaning, replacement of pads and corks, etc. Most parts are original. Has double octave key and plays up to Eb. This work would need to be done by a professional tech. This instrument could also be used for parts. . This sax will NOT play as is. No case. Fast and Free USA shipping with insurance and tracking. Contact us with any questions.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n Well, I did try to contact them to ask them some questions. Sadly though their eBay account is set up to not<\/strong> accept any queries. Really?<\/p>\n Had I been able to ask them any questions, I would have asked them things like:<\/p>\n Oh, in case you’re interested in this Heniz 57 of a bari, the current bid price is $300.00 US. Yup, at the time of writing 3 people had bid on this already. Why? Lamp material?<\/a><\/p>\n Moving on to Buffet Crampon Evette & Schaeffer bari 29029.<\/a> Here we have a slightly newer instrument, but it too raises some questions in my mind.<\/p>\n The seller describes this rough-looking bari like this:<\/p>\n RARE Buffet Crampon Evette & Schaeffer baritone saxophoneYou find many altos and tenors of this guy, but rarely does a Bari come along. I recommend a complete overhaul to make this baby sing properly again. A good technician can restore this horn. Yes, I played it in this condition. No mouthpiece, no strap \/ harness The guy I bought this from was selling it because he was shifting into tango dancing. If you’re ready for the big sound, this baby is ready for you.<\/p>\n new lowered price. Priced to go!<\/p><\/blockquote>\n This seller was open to receiving questions, and was good enough to answer the ones I posed to them. Again, my questions were around the pitch of the horn.<\/p>\n If you take a look at the photo of the bari in the ProTech case, you’ll notice that there is quite a bit of space that has to be filled with spacers. When I put any of my 3 baris in my ProTech case, I do have to use a bit of a spacer, but nothing like this. This tells me that the horn is really short compared to modern horns.<\/p>\n This is what I asked:<\/p>\n Hi there. I was wondering, is this bari actually a low pitch (LP) horn (A=440) like we use today? Or is it a high pitch horn?<\/p>\n I ask because I have seen a number of Buffet Evette & Schaeffer baris that are HP, and there seems to be a fair amount of space that you’ve had to fill with a spacer in your ProTech case with a block.<\/p>\n I have 2 baris that I put in a ProTech case–a Mark VI and a Martin–and while there is some space in the case, neither requires a space as big as the one your horn does.<\/p>\n Would you be able to measure the instrument from the top of the top bow, to the bottom of the bottom bow? That would answer the question with 100% certainty.<\/p>\n Thank you.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n And this is the reply that I got:<\/p>\n Hi there. Mmm… Interesting. We know one thing, you CANNOT fix HP saxophones by adding a longer neck. Period. Full stop.<\/p>\n Changing the length of the neck changes the length of bore, and whole bunch of other things that I can’t begin to describe\u2014since I’m neither a saxophone designer nor a tech, and really don’t begin to understand all the physics that go into the conical bore. I will leave that to the experts to explain.<\/p>\n My limitations however, don’t change the science. I wish they did.<\/p>\n This is a question I can easily answer, since I just happen to have have a HP Buffet bari from 1886. My Buffet Crampon (Evette Schaeffer) bari is a HP horn, and I knew it from the day I saw its first photos. I bought it to give it a home, since its previous caretaker was at a stage in his life where he was looking to find it a good home while he still could.<\/p>\n My HP bari is 95cm from the top of its upper bow to the bottom of its lower bow<\/span>.<\/strong><\/em><\/p>\n I then measured my Selmer Mark VI bari:<\/p>\n My Mark VI is 100 cm from the top of its upper bow to the bottom of its lower bow.<\/span><\/em> <\/strong><\/p>\n This means that the difference in length between a HP Buffet bari and a modern LP horn is approx. 5 cm. And as I pointed out already, just because you add a 5 cm longer neck doesn’t mean you’re suddenly going to be able to play with a modern orchestra or band.<\/p>\n I am first and foremost a baritone saxophone player, and understand the financial realities that bari players face in everything from buying reeds, stands, harnesses and other sundry accessories, to the cash outlay for their horns. The fact is being a baritone player costs more than being an alto, tenor, or even soprano player. It’s the economies of scale playing themselves out, and hitting sax players right in their wallets.<\/p>\n The chances that any of us started as bari sax players is pretty small. More likely than not we started on either alto or tenor, and then at some point transitioned to bari, or added bari to our horn stable.<\/p>\n When we went about looking for our first bari, who reading this article wasn’t rather shocked by their prices? Who here wasn’t tempted by a beater horn, and thought: I could get my tech to fix it up a bit short of an overhaul. Or maybe: I could fix it myself with some stuff from Music Medic.<\/p>\n The problem of course is that there are few really good baris available at any given time, and really good ones cost some serious coin. So your options are:<\/p>\n If you opt for #4, that’s fair enough. Not everyone has the cash to get a primo baritone sax from a dealer. There are however, some serious pitfalls to look out for.<\/p>\n These two Buffet baris are a good reminder of arguably the biggest pitfall to be aware of: making sure that whatever horn you buy is eventually playable with a modern band, and is tuned to A=440, AKA, LP.<\/p>\n Probably a decade ago now, I got an email from a fellow who sent me photos of a stunningly beautiful Pierret Super Artiste bari sax he bought online, only to discover it was indeed a HP horn. This to date, is the only HP Pierret I have ever heard of.<\/p>\n If you’re looking for a bari sax to play, only one of these Buffet baris shows any promise. That is of course bari # 2, #29029 circa 1926<\/a>. The seller has set opening bids to start at $899.99 US\u2014which is why this bari has been on eBay for a few auction cycles already. The current auction is scheduled to end in 6 days.<\/p>\n Is Buffet bari #29029 a LP horn? Possibly. Whoever is seriously interested needs to get the seller to measure it to confirm the length to be sure. Once that’s been confirmed, then a whole bunch of other questions need to be answered as well.<\/p>\nBuffet Bari #1<\/h3>\n
<\/a> <\/a> <\/a> <\/a> <\/a> <\/a> <\/a> <\/a> <\/a> <\/a> \n
Buffet Bari # 2<\/h3>\n
<\/a> <\/a> <\/a> <\/a> <\/a> <\/a> <\/a> <\/a> <\/a> <\/a> <\/a>
\nSerial number dates to 1926
\nHorn is sold “as-is”
\nOriginal lacquer at roughly 60%, a beautiful honey bronze.
\nMany spots where the copper in the brass is coming through.<\/p>\n
\nI have used this horn on recordings last year, and the sound is not obtainable by any modern horn.
\nMassive fat sound. They don’t make metal like this anymore.
\nStill may have the original pads from the 20’s. They are long in need of replacement.
\nMany ugly solder points, some posts are off, and the soldered tone holes probably have a few leaks.
\nDings abound, two big ones about mid way down the horn, and the other at the bottom, but those can be removed.<\/p>\n
\nThe only work I ever had done on it was to move the neck strap loop down to a more balanced position. This was performed by an expert technician.
\nAlso had the neck cork redone a few years ago, and it’s still in great shape.<\/p>\n
\nBut the bigger the horn, the more forgiving it is to get a sound, so I was able to get it to cook for the last 10 years.
\nMany people wondered how I was able to play it. I guess I’m just used to playing old horns from the 20’s.
\nA spring popped on the top stack recently (Bb key), and I’ve rigged an elastic hair tie to make it functional again,
\nas I needed the horn on a gig this week, so you can play it out of the box.<\/p>\n
\nComes with the ProTec case in the photos. It’s in super shape and retails for $400+<\/p>\n
\n“I’d rather dance with the ladies than play for them.”<\/p>\n
\nThanks for the interest.
\nI\u2019ll gladly measure when I get back In town on the 23rd.
\nI\u2019m thinking low pitch, just because I have used the horn with many different projects over the past few years, and I\u2019m pushing the mouthpiece in all the way to get Iain tune. If she was hi pitch, wouldn\u2019t that make her even more sharp than she already was supposed to be? Maybe someone put in a longer neck? Who knows? Evette was supposedly good about stamping low or high, so I\u2019ll definitely get back …<\/p><\/blockquote>\nWhat is the actual difference in length between a HP and LP baritone?<\/h3>\n
<\/a><\/a>So what’s the point here?<\/h3>\n
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Wrapping this all up then<\/h3>\n