Production Information<\/strong><\/a> <\/h4> <\/div>
\n<\/strong>s\/n 1 to 2000?
\n(1941 \u2013 1943?)<\/span>
<\/div> <\/div><\/div>
Available Pitches<\/strong><\/a> <\/h4> <\/div>
Eb Alto, Bb Tenor<\/span>
<\/div> <\/div><\/div>
Available Finishes<\/strong><\/a> <\/h4> <\/div>
lacquer, Silver Plate, [Silver Plate with Gold Plated bell], Gold Plate [I have never seen gold plate<\/span>]
\n(per Olds\u2019 1941 brasswind catalog<\/a>)<\/span>
<\/div> <\/div><\/div>
<\/div>\nFirst, this is not the Olds Super Star<\/a>. [This is an Armstrong stencil made for Olds<\/span>.] Olds tends to recycle parts of model names.<\/p>\n![\"\"](\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/bassic-sax.info\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/10\/Right-Side-1.jpg?resize=797%2C601&ssl=1\")
<\/a>Olds Super alto Source: soundfuga.jp<\/figcaption><\/figure>\nThis is a very unique looking horn, primarily because of how the keycups look. My opinion is that Olds said to the folks that designed with this horn something like, \u201cWe want a horn that someone can just look at and say, \u2018That\u2019s an Olds,\u2019 along the lines of how you can tell an HN White horn is one by the way its keys look<\/a> or if you see a Mercedes-Benz-logo low C keyguard<\/a> that it\u2019s probably a Conn.\u201d<\/p>\nWell. It\u2019s a theory, at least.<\/p>\n
For what it\u2019s worth, I\u2019ve only seen only one other manufacturer besides HN White and Olds that decided to make unique keycups: Josef Hammerschmidt und S\u00f6hne<\/a>. The horn that Helen and I found at approximately the same time a little while back has completely smooth keycups. It\u2019s striking because it\u2019s so simple. It\u2019s also a good way to make the horn look different enough so people \u2014 or, at least, saxophone players looking to buy a new horn \u2014 can say something like, \u201cHey! $Favorite_Sax_Player plays a horn that looks like this! That\u2019s an Olds! I need to buy the same horn as him!\u201d<\/p>\nFE Olds was never known as a saxophone manufacturer. They, like many other companies without their own saxophone line, decided to get stencils, instead. Probably the most common Olds stencils are the Parisian<\/a> and Parisian Ambassador<\/a>, both of which were made by Pierret (the Ambassador \u2014 not Parisian<\/em> Ambassador \u2014 was a Buescher Aristocrat stencil). However, the Super was allegedly all done in-house design; Olds\u2019 first saxophone.<\/p>\nIf the Olds Super was an Olds-made instrument, it probably followed the design of the other Olds Super brasswinds. That means it had Olin brass<\/a> (I bet you thought that people advertising, \u201cWe use special French brass in our saxophones!\u201d was a recent phenomena).<\/p>\nAnyhow, the Super model trumpet was introduced around 1932<\/a>. The most obvious feature is the nickel-silver band around the bell that reads, \u201cSuper Olds.\u201d<\/a> However, according to most of the stuff I\u2019ve read and anecdotes, the Olds Super saxophone was introduced in 1941. [My understanding is that they were built for 2 years, and that was from 1939-41<\/span>] Interestingly, the Buescher 400 saxophone<\/a> was introduced in 1941\/2 and featured a silver band around the bell. Interesting coincidence \u2026. [The gallery I have added shows the bell ring really well on the tenor.]<\/p>\nWhen one of the good folks at the WF got one of these horns<\/a>, I decided to do some comparison of the Olds Super to various Martin models. A lot of the keywork looks identical \u2014 until you get to the beautifully complex octave key mechanism<\/a>. It\u2019s definitely not a Martin design: the Handcraft Committee II has a somewhat complex mechanism<\/a>, but it\u2019s a completely different design. The Committee and Centennial have almost identical mechanisms and they\u2019re much plainer<\/a> than the Olds.<\/p>\nOlds Super alto & tenor gallery \u2013 added by Helen<\/span><\/h3>\nngg_shortcode_0_placeholderLet me quote<\/a> (I\u2019ve fixed some of the spelling and grammar. As always, my additions are in [brackets]):<\/p>\nThe Olds Super Sax history, from a former executive at F.E. Olds & Son: <\/p>\n
<\/p>\n
The Kanstul family runs Kanstul Music, a producer of Brasswinds previously associated with Benge. Zig Kanstul keeps business hours, but other Kanstuls appear throughout the [history of Olds]. Mr. Kanstul started his career working for FE Olds in the early 50\u2019s as a technician reaching the top of the company and overseeing it\u2019s success and decline.<\/p>\n
<\/p>\n
[\u2026] According to Mr Kanstul, the Olds Super sax was made in small numbers until WWII interrupted civilian production, at the Los Angeles, CA F.E. Olds plant. The company hired a former Martin employee who had moved to the LA area(I failed to note his name during our discussion). As a result of this hire, Olds developed the Olds Super sax models intended for the professional market. This was part of the company\u2019s evolving product line. <\/p>\n
<\/p>\n
Mr Kanstul thought that less than 2,000 [horns] were produced, something beyond a prototype run, and enough to build interest in the new line. Full production wasn\u2019t ever achieved and the tooling was put in storage. The [low] serial numbers reflect the pre-production nature of the Olds Super line. The instruments were not produced for the WWII effort or under government contract, but they were [available] at the beginning of the war.<\/p>\n
<\/p>\n
The similarity to Martin instruments is explained by [having a] former Martin employee who did the design and tooling. Based on the timeframe, the Olds Super has common roots with he Martin Committee II line. In order to avoid patent problems, the tooling was Olds proprietary production hardware and much of the construction differs from Martin instruments. The keywork, tone hole shapes, [octave key] mechanism, and guards were unique to the Super Olds line.<\/p>\n
<\/p>\n
Post-war Olds Saxes were all made for the European branch of Olds, the more familiar [Parisian] Ambassador and Parisian models. The US Olds plant never produced additional Olds Super saxes. The tooling was shipped to a sax manufacturer in Holland as Olds production ended. It was last known to be rusting in a container in a small plant in Holland. (I failed to note the name of the company.)<\/p>\n
<\/p>\n
Given Olds popular brasswind products and their postwar outsourcing of saxes, the Olds Super sax wasn\u2019t important to the company. No one [even kept documentation] on production or serial numbers. Mr. Kanstul considered the sax line as a product that never developed it\u2019s own market.<\/p>\n
<\/p>\n
Conclusion: An Olds Super sax isn\u2019t a Martin Stencil, although it shares manufacturing techniques.<\/p>\n
<\/p>\n
Many thanks to David Browne of Anaheim Band Instruments for listening and providing references and to everyone who in the last 10 years has listened [or] played my set of Olds Supers. Many thanks to L&L Music in Gaithersburg for repair, restoration, and patience. It\u2019s a world filled with amazing people and instruments.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n
So, where does that leave me? Well, I\u2019d think it\u2019s a better than safe bet to say that the Kanstul story, above, is probably accurate and the Olds Super really was made by Olds.<\/p>\n
Here\u2019s some ad copy<\/a> from a 1941 brasswind catalog:<\/p>\nAll of the artistry and ingenuity at the command of Olds\u2019 master craftsmen have gone into the creation of the Olds Super instruments. Though costly, they are greatly in demand, and among the most popular in the entire family of Olds instruments. Artists the world over acclaim them for their glorious tone quality and their unparalleled responsiveness \u2026 achieved by the tone control band spun around the bell [ed. that band is present on the Super saxophones]. In addition, there are a host of other features, exclusive with Olds, which more than justify their name of \u201cSuper,\u201d important among which are their light, yet sturdy modern design patented Olds Alloy braces \u2026 comfortable and streamlined, with double-curved hand-grips [ed. the grips are a trumpet\/trombone thing]. Here, indeed is Olds\u2019 genius at its zenith, in exquisitively crafted instruments that are beyond compare.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n
Wow. People say I write too much. Also, recognize the use of ellipses instead of periods to create a \u201cbreathless\u201d read. Hmm. Zenith\u2019s a TV, isn\u2019t it?<\/p>\n
One final story that I\u2019ve heard, in the distant past, is that the reason why there are so few of these horns remaining is because a ship that was ferrying the bulk of these horns to the US military during WWII was sunk in the Mediterranean Sea. Olds just didn\u2019t have the time to produce more (source<\/a>. Theo Wanne is also cited here<\/a>). That\u2019s an unverified story, of course, but a nice little coda.<\/a><\/p>\n
\n
\n<\/strong>s\/n 1 to 2000?
\n(1941 \u2013 1943?)<\/span>
<\/div> <\/div><\/div>
Available Pitches<\/strong><\/a> <\/h4> <\/div>
Eb Alto, Bb Tenor<\/span>
<\/div> <\/div><\/div>
Available Finishes<\/strong><\/a> <\/h4> <\/div>
lacquer, Silver Plate, [Silver Plate with Gold Plated bell], Gold Plate [I have never seen gold plate<\/span>]
\n(per Olds\u2019 1941 brasswind catalog<\/a>)<\/span>
<\/div> <\/div><\/div>
<\/div>\nFirst, this is not the Olds Super Star<\/a>. [This is an Armstrong stencil made for Olds<\/span>.] Olds tends to recycle parts of model names.<\/p>\n<\/a>Olds Super alto Source: soundfuga.jp<\/figcaption><\/figure>\nThis is a very unique looking horn, primarily because of how the keycups look. My opinion is that Olds said to the folks that designed with this horn something like, \u201cWe want a horn that someone can just look at and say, \u2018That\u2019s an Olds,\u2019 along the lines of how you can tell an HN White horn is one by the way its keys look<\/a> or if you see a Mercedes-Benz-logo low C keyguard<\/a> that it\u2019s probably a Conn.\u201d<\/p>\nWell. It\u2019s a theory, at least.<\/p>\n
For what it\u2019s worth, I\u2019ve only seen only one other manufacturer besides HN White and Olds that decided to make unique keycups: Josef Hammerschmidt und S\u00f6hne<\/a>. The horn that Helen and I found at approximately the same time a little while back has completely smooth keycups. It\u2019s striking because it\u2019s so simple. It\u2019s also a good way to make the horn look different enough so people \u2014 or, at least, saxophone players looking to buy a new horn \u2014 can say something like, \u201cHey! $Favorite_Sax_Player plays a horn that looks like this! That\u2019s an Olds! I need to buy the same horn as him!\u201d<\/p>\nFE Olds was never known as a saxophone manufacturer. They, like many other companies without their own saxophone line, decided to get stencils, instead. Probably the most common Olds stencils are the Parisian<\/a> and Parisian Ambassador<\/a>, both of which were made by Pierret (the Ambassador \u2014 not Parisian<\/em> Ambassador \u2014 was a Buescher Aristocrat stencil). However, the Super was allegedly all done in-house design; Olds\u2019 first saxophone.<\/p>\nIf the Olds Super was an Olds-made instrument, it probably followed the design of the other Olds Super brasswinds. That means it had Olin brass<\/a> (I bet you thought that people advertising, \u201cWe use special French brass in our saxophones!\u201d was a recent phenomena).<\/p>\nAnyhow, the Super model trumpet was introduced around 1932<\/a>. The most obvious feature is the nickel-silver band around the bell that reads, \u201cSuper Olds.\u201d<\/a> However, according to most of the stuff I\u2019ve read and anecdotes, the Olds Super saxophone was introduced in 1941. [My understanding is that they were built for 2 years, and that was from 1939-41<\/span>] Interestingly, the Buescher 400 saxophone<\/a> was introduced in 1941\/2 and featured a silver band around the bell. Interesting coincidence \u2026. [The gallery I have added shows the bell ring really well on the tenor.]<\/p>\nWhen one of the good folks at the WF got one of these horns<\/a>, I decided to do some comparison of the Olds Super to various Martin models. A lot of the keywork looks identical \u2014 until you get to the beautifully complex octave key mechanism<\/a>. It\u2019s definitely not a Martin design: the Handcraft Committee II has a somewhat complex mechanism<\/a>, but it\u2019s a completely different design. The Committee and Centennial have almost identical mechanisms and they\u2019re much plainer<\/a> than the Olds.<\/p>\nOlds Super alto & tenor gallery \u2013 added by Helen<\/span><\/h3>\nngg_shortcode_0_placeholderLet me quote<\/a> (I\u2019ve fixed some of the spelling and grammar. As always, my additions are in [brackets]):<\/p>\nThe Olds Super Sax history, from a former executive at F.E. Olds & Son: <\/p>\n
<\/p>\n
The Kanstul family runs Kanstul Music, a producer of Brasswinds previously associated with Benge. Zig Kanstul keeps business hours, but other Kanstuls appear throughout the [history of Olds]. Mr. Kanstul started his career working for FE Olds in the early 50\u2019s as a technician reaching the top of the company and overseeing it\u2019s success and decline.<\/p>\n
<\/p>\n
[\u2026] According to Mr Kanstul, the Olds Super sax was made in small numbers until WWII interrupted civilian production, at the Los Angeles, CA F.E. Olds plant. The company hired a former Martin employee who had moved to the LA area(I failed to note his name during our discussion). As a result of this hire, Olds developed the Olds Super sax models intended for the professional market. This was part of the company\u2019s evolving product line. <\/p>\n
<\/p>\n
Mr Kanstul thought that less than 2,000 [horns] were produced, something beyond a prototype run, and enough to build interest in the new line. Full production wasn\u2019t ever achieved and the tooling was put in storage. The [low] serial numbers reflect the pre-production nature of the Olds Super line. The instruments were not produced for the WWII effort or under government contract, but they were [available] at the beginning of the war.<\/p>\n
<\/p>\n
The similarity to Martin instruments is explained by [having a] former Martin employee who did the design and tooling. Based on the timeframe, the Olds Super has common roots with he Martin Committee II line. In order to avoid patent problems, the tooling was Olds proprietary production hardware and much of the construction differs from Martin instruments. The keywork, tone hole shapes, [octave key] mechanism, and guards were unique to the Super Olds line.<\/p>\n
<\/p>\n
Post-war Olds Saxes were all made for the European branch of Olds, the more familiar [Parisian] Ambassador and Parisian models. The US Olds plant never produced additional Olds Super saxes. The tooling was shipped to a sax manufacturer in Holland as Olds production ended. It was last known to be rusting in a container in a small plant in Holland. (I failed to note the name of the company.)<\/p>\n
<\/p>\n
Given Olds popular brasswind products and their postwar outsourcing of saxes, the Olds Super sax wasn\u2019t important to the company. No one [even kept documentation] on production or serial numbers. Mr. Kanstul considered the sax line as a product that never developed it\u2019s own market.<\/p>\n
<\/p>\n
Conclusion: An Olds Super sax isn\u2019t a Martin Stencil, although it shares manufacturing techniques.<\/p>\n
<\/p>\n
Many thanks to David Browne of Anaheim Band Instruments for listening and providing references and to everyone who in the last 10 years has listened [or] played my set of Olds Supers. Many thanks to L&L Music in Gaithersburg for repair, restoration, and patience. It\u2019s a world filled with amazing people and instruments.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n
So, where does that leave me? Well, I\u2019d think it\u2019s a better than safe bet to say that the Kanstul story, above, is probably accurate and the Olds Super really was made by Olds.<\/p>\n
Here\u2019s some ad copy<\/a> from a 1941 brasswind catalog:<\/p>\nAll of the artistry and ingenuity at the command of Olds\u2019 master craftsmen have gone into the creation of the Olds Super instruments. Though costly, they are greatly in demand, and among the most popular in the entire family of Olds instruments. Artists the world over acclaim them for their glorious tone quality and their unparalleled responsiveness \u2026 achieved by the tone control band spun around the bell [ed. that band is present on the Super saxophones]. In addition, there are a host of other features, exclusive with Olds, which more than justify their name of \u201cSuper,\u201d important among which are their light, yet sturdy modern design patented Olds Alloy braces \u2026 comfortable and streamlined, with double-curved hand-grips [ed. the grips are a trumpet\/trombone thing]. Here, indeed is Olds\u2019 genius at its zenith, in exquisitively crafted instruments that are beyond compare.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n
Wow. People say I write too much. Also, recognize the use of ellipses instead of periods to create a \u201cbreathless\u201d read. Hmm. Zenith\u2019s a TV, isn\u2019t it?<\/p>\n
One final story that I\u2019ve heard, in the distant past, is that the reason why there are so few of these horns remaining is because a ship that was ferrying the bulk of these horns to the US military during WWII was sunk in the Mediterranean Sea. Olds just didn\u2019t have the time to produce more (source<\/a>. Theo Wanne is also cited here<\/a>). That\u2019s an unverified story, of course, but a nice little coda.<\/a><\/p>\n
\n
Eb Alto, Bb Tenor<\/span>
<\/div> <\/div><\/div>
Available Finishes<\/strong><\/a> <\/h4> <\/div>
lacquer, Silver Plate, [Silver Plate with Gold Plated bell], Gold Plate [I have never seen gold plate<\/span>]
\n(per Olds\u2019 1941 brasswind catalog<\/a>)<\/span>
<\/div> <\/div><\/div>
<\/div>\nFirst, this is not the Olds Super Star<\/a>. [This is an Armstrong stencil made for Olds<\/span>.] Olds tends to recycle parts of model names.<\/p>\n<\/a>Olds Super alto Source: soundfuga.jp<\/figcaption><\/figure>\nThis is a very unique looking horn, primarily because of how the keycups look. My opinion is that Olds said to the folks that designed with this horn something like, \u201cWe want a horn that someone can just look at and say, \u2018That\u2019s an Olds,\u2019 along the lines of how you can tell an HN White horn is one by the way its keys look<\/a> or if you see a Mercedes-Benz-logo low C keyguard<\/a> that it\u2019s probably a Conn.\u201d<\/p>\nWell. It\u2019s a theory, at least.<\/p>\n
For what it\u2019s worth, I\u2019ve only seen only one other manufacturer besides HN White and Olds that decided to make unique keycups: Josef Hammerschmidt und S\u00f6hne<\/a>. The horn that Helen and I found at approximately the same time a little while back has completely smooth keycups. It\u2019s striking because it\u2019s so simple. It\u2019s also a good way to make the horn look different enough so people \u2014 or, at least, saxophone players looking to buy a new horn \u2014 can say something like, \u201cHey! $Favorite_Sax_Player plays a horn that looks like this! That\u2019s an Olds! I need to buy the same horn as him!\u201d<\/p>\nFE Olds was never known as a saxophone manufacturer. They, like many other companies without their own saxophone line, decided to get stencils, instead. Probably the most common Olds stencils are the Parisian<\/a> and Parisian Ambassador<\/a>, both of which were made by Pierret (the Ambassador \u2014 not Parisian<\/em> Ambassador \u2014 was a Buescher Aristocrat stencil). However, the Super was allegedly all done in-house design; Olds\u2019 first saxophone.<\/p>\nIf the Olds Super was an Olds-made instrument, it probably followed the design of the other Olds Super brasswinds. That means it had Olin brass<\/a> (I bet you thought that people advertising, \u201cWe use special French brass in our saxophones!\u201d was a recent phenomena).<\/p>\nAnyhow, the Super model trumpet was introduced around 1932<\/a>. The most obvious feature is the nickel-silver band around the bell that reads, \u201cSuper Olds.\u201d<\/a> However, according to most of the stuff I\u2019ve read and anecdotes, the Olds Super saxophone was introduced in 1941. [My understanding is that they were built for 2 years, and that was from 1939-41<\/span>] Interestingly, the Buescher 400 saxophone<\/a> was introduced in 1941\/2 and featured a silver band around the bell. Interesting coincidence \u2026. [The gallery I have added shows the bell ring really well on the tenor.]<\/p>\nWhen one of the good folks at the WF got one of these horns<\/a>, I decided to do some comparison of the Olds Super to various Martin models. A lot of the keywork looks identical \u2014 until you get to the beautifully complex octave key mechanism<\/a>. It\u2019s definitely not a Martin design: the Handcraft Committee II has a somewhat complex mechanism<\/a>, but it\u2019s a completely different design. The Committee and Centennial have almost identical mechanisms and they\u2019re much plainer<\/a> than the Olds.<\/p>\nOlds Super alto & tenor gallery \u2013 added by Helen<\/span><\/h3>\nngg_shortcode_0_placeholderLet me quote<\/a> (I\u2019ve fixed some of the spelling and grammar. As always, my additions are in [brackets]):<\/p>\nThe Olds Super Sax history, from a former executive at F.E. Olds & Son: <\/p>\n
<\/p>\n
The Kanstul family runs Kanstul Music, a producer of Brasswinds previously associated with Benge. Zig Kanstul keeps business hours, but other Kanstuls appear throughout the [history of Olds]. Mr. Kanstul started his career working for FE Olds in the early 50\u2019s as a technician reaching the top of the company and overseeing it\u2019s success and decline.<\/p>\n
<\/p>\n
[\u2026] According to Mr Kanstul, the Olds Super sax was made in small numbers until WWII interrupted civilian production, at the Los Angeles, CA F.E. Olds plant. The company hired a former Martin employee who had moved to the LA area(I failed to note his name during our discussion). As a result of this hire, Olds developed the Olds Super sax models intended for the professional market. This was part of the company\u2019s evolving product line. <\/p>\n
<\/p>\n
Mr Kanstul thought that less than 2,000 [horns] were produced, something beyond a prototype run, and enough to build interest in the new line. Full production wasn\u2019t ever achieved and the tooling was put in storage. The [low] serial numbers reflect the pre-production nature of the Olds Super line. The instruments were not produced for the WWII effort or under government contract, but they were [available] at the beginning of the war.<\/p>\n
<\/p>\n
The similarity to Martin instruments is explained by [having a] former Martin employee who did the design and tooling. Based on the timeframe, the Olds Super has common roots with he Martin Committee II line. In order to avoid patent problems, the tooling was Olds proprietary production hardware and much of the construction differs from Martin instruments. The keywork, tone hole shapes, [octave key] mechanism, and guards were unique to the Super Olds line.<\/p>\n
<\/p>\n
Post-war Olds Saxes were all made for the European branch of Olds, the more familiar [Parisian] Ambassador and Parisian models. The US Olds plant never produced additional Olds Super saxes. The tooling was shipped to a sax manufacturer in Holland as Olds production ended. It was last known to be rusting in a container in a small plant in Holland. (I failed to note the name of the company.)<\/p>\n
<\/p>\n
Given Olds popular brasswind products and their postwar outsourcing of saxes, the Olds Super sax wasn\u2019t important to the company. No one [even kept documentation] on production or serial numbers. Mr. Kanstul considered the sax line as a product that never developed it\u2019s own market.<\/p>\n
<\/p>\n
Conclusion: An Olds Super sax isn\u2019t a Martin Stencil, although it shares manufacturing techniques.<\/p>\n
<\/p>\n
Many thanks to David Browne of Anaheim Band Instruments for listening and providing references and to everyone who in the last 10 years has listened [or] played my set of Olds Supers. Many thanks to L&L Music in Gaithersburg for repair, restoration, and patience. It\u2019s a world filled with amazing people and instruments.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n
So, where does that leave me? Well, I\u2019d think it\u2019s a better than safe bet to say that the Kanstul story, above, is probably accurate and the Olds Super really was made by Olds.<\/p>\n
Here\u2019s some ad copy<\/a> from a 1941 brasswind catalog:<\/p>\nAll of the artistry and ingenuity at the command of Olds\u2019 master craftsmen have gone into the creation of the Olds Super instruments. Though costly, they are greatly in demand, and among the most popular in the entire family of Olds instruments. Artists the world over acclaim them for their glorious tone quality and their unparalleled responsiveness \u2026 achieved by the tone control band spun around the bell [ed. that band is present on the Super saxophones]. In addition, there are a host of other features, exclusive with Olds, which more than justify their name of \u201cSuper,\u201d important among which are their light, yet sturdy modern design patented Olds Alloy braces \u2026 comfortable and streamlined, with double-curved hand-grips [ed. the grips are a trumpet\/trombone thing]. Here, indeed is Olds\u2019 genius at its zenith, in exquisitively crafted instruments that are beyond compare.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n
Wow. People say I write too much. Also, recognize the use of ellipses instead of periods to create a \u201cbreathless\u201d read. Hmm. Zenith\u2019s a TV, isn\u2019t it?<\/p>\n
One final story that I\u2019ve heard, in the distant past, is that the reason why there are so few of these horns remaining is because a ship that was ferrying the bulk of these horns to the US military during WWII was sunk in the Mediterranean Sea. Olds just didn\u2019t have the time to produce more (source<\/a>. Theo Wanne is also cited here<\/a>). That\u2019s an unverified story, of course, but a nice little coda.<\/a><\/p>\n
\n
lacquer, Silver Plate, [Silver Plate with Gold Plated bell], Gold Plate [I have never seen gold plate<\/span>]
\n(per Olds\u2019 1941 brasswind catalog<\/a>)<\/span>
<\/div> <\/div><\/div>
<\/div>\n
First, this is not the Olds Super Star<\/a>. [This is an Armstrong stencil made for Olds<\/span>.] Olds tends to recycle parts of model names.<\/p>\n This is a very unique looking horn, primarily because of how the keycups look. My opinion is that Olds said to the folks that designed with this horn something like, \u201cWe want a horn that someone can just look at and say, \u2018That\u2019s an Olds,\u2019 along the lines of how you can tell an HN White horn is one by the way its keys look<\/a> or if you see a Mercedes-Benz-logo low C keyguard<\/a> that it\u2019s probably a Conn.\u201d<\/p>\n Well. It\u2019s a theory, at least.<\/p>\n For what it\u2019s worth, I\u2019ve only seen only one other manufacturer besides HN White and Olds that decided to make unique keycups: Josef Hammerschmidt und S\u00f6hne<\/a>. The horn that Helen and I found at approximately the same time a little while back has completely smooth keycups. It\u2019s striking because it\u2019s so simple. It\u2019s also a good way to make the horn look different enough so people \u2014 or, at least, saxophone players looking to buy a new horn \u2014 can say something like, \u201cHey! $Favorite_Sax_Player plays a horn that looks like this! That\u2019s an Olds! I need to buy the same horn as him!\u201d<\/p>\n FE Olds was never known as a saxophone manufacturer. They, like many other companies without their own saxophone line, decided to get stencils, instead. Probably the most common Olds stencils are the Parisian<\/a> and Parisian Ambassador<\/a>, both of which were made by Pierret (the Ambassador \u2014 not Parisian<\/em> Ambassador \u2014 was a Buescher Aristocrat stencil). However, the Super was allegedly all done in-house design; Olds\u2019 first saxophone.<\/p>\n If the Olds Super was an Olds-made instrument, it probably followed the design of the other Olds Super brasswinds. That means it had Olin brass<\/a> (I bet you thought that people advertising, \u201cWe use special French brass in our saxophones!\u201d was a recent phenomena).<\/p>\n Anyhow, the Super model trumpet was introduced around 1932<\/a>. The most obvious feature is the nickel-silver band around the bell that reads, \u201cSuper Olds.\u201d<\/a> However, according to most of the stuff I\u2019ve read and anecdotes, the Olds Super saxophone was introduced in 1941. [My understanding is that they were built for 2 years, and that was from 1939-41<\/span>] Interestingly, the Buescher 400 saxophone<\/a> was introduced in 1941\/2 and featured a silver band around the bell. Interesting coincidence \u2026. [The gallery I have added shows the bell ring really well on the tenor.]<\/p>\n When one of the good folks at the WF got one of these horns<\/a>, I decided to do some comparison of the Olds Super to various Martin models. A lot of the keywork looks identical \u2014 until you get to the beautifully complex octave key mechanism<\/a>. It\u2019s definitely not a Martin design: the Handcraft Committee II has a somewhat complex mechanism<\/a>, but it\u2019s a completely different design. The Committee and Centennial have almost identical mechanisms and they\u2019re much plainer<\/a> than the Olds.<\/p>\n ngg_shortcode_0_placeholderLet me quote<\/a> (I\u2019ve fixed some of the spelling and grammar. As always, my additions are in [brackets]):<\/p>\n The Olds Super Sax history, from a former executive at F.E. Olds & Son: <\/p>\n <\/p>\n The Kanstul family runs Kanstul Music, a producer of Brasswinds previously associated with Benge. Zig Kanstul keeps business hours, but other Kanstuls appear throughout the [history of Olds]. Mr. Kanstul started his career working for FE Olds in the early 50\u2019s as a technician reaching the top of the company and overseeing it\u2019s success and decline.<\/p>\n <\/p>\n [\u2026] According to Mr Kanstul, the Olds Super sax was made in small numbers until WWII interrupted civilian production, at the Los Angeles, CA F.E. Olds plant. The company hired a former Martin employee who had moved to the LA area(I failed to note his name during our discussion). As a result of this hire, Olds developed the Olds Super sax models intended for the professional market. This was part of the company\u2019s evolving product line. <\/p>\n <\/p>\n Mr Kanstul thought that less than 2,000 [horns] were produced, something beyond a prototype run, and enough to build interest in the new line. Full production wasn\u2019t ever achieved and the tooling was put in storage. The [low] serial numbers reflect the pre-production nature of the Olds Super line. The instruments were not produced for the WWII effort or under government contract, but they were [available] at the beginning of the war.<\/p>\n <\/p>\n The similarity to Martin instruments is explained by [having a] former Martin employee who did the design and tooling. Based on the timeframe, the Olds Super has common roots with he Martin Committee II line. In order to avoid patent problems, the tooling was Olds proprietary production hardware and much of the construction differs from Martin instruments. The keywork, tone hole shapes, [octave key] mechanism, and guards were unique to the Super Olds line.<\/p>\n <\/p>\n Post-war Olds Saxes were all made for the European branch of Olds, the more familiar [Parisian] Ambassador and Parisian models. The US Olds plant never produced additional Olds Super saxes. The tooling was shipped to a sax manufacturer in Holland as Olds production ended. It was last known to be rusting in a container in a small plant in Holland. (I failed to note the name of the company.)<\/p>\n <\/p>\n Given Olds popular brasswind products and their postwar outsourcing of saxes, the Olds Super sax wasn\u2019t important to the company. No one [even kept documentation] on production or serial numbers. Mr. Kanstul considered the sax line as a product that never developed it\u2019s own market.<\/p>\n <\/p>\n Conclusion: An Olds Super sax isn\u2019t a Martin Stencil, although it shares manufacturing techniques.<\/p>\n <\/p>\n Many thanks to David Browne of Anaheim Band Instruments for listening and providing references and to everyone who in the last 10 years has listened [or] played my set of Olds Supers. Many thanks to L&L Music in Gaithersburg for repair, restoration, and patience. It\u2019s a world filled with amazing people and instruments.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n So, where does that leave me? Well, I\u2019d think it\u2019s a better than safe bet to say that the Kanstul story, above, is probably accurate and the Olds Super really was made by Olds.<\/p>\n Here\u2019s some ad copy<\/a> from a 1941 brasswind catalog:<\/p>\n All of the artistry and ingenuity at the command of Olds\u2019 master craftsmen have gone into the creation of the Olds Super instruments. Though costly, they are greatly in demand, and among the most popular in the entire family of Olds instruments. Artists the world over acclaim them for their glorious tone quality and their unparalleled responsiveness \u2026 achieved by the tone control band spun around the bell [ed. that band is present on the Super saxophones]. In addition, there are a host of other features, exclusive with Olds, which more than justify their name of \u201cSuper,\u201d important among which are their light, yet sturdy modern design patented Olds Alloy braces \u2026 comfortable and streamlined, with double-curved hand-grips [ed. the grips are a trumpet\/trombone thing]. Here, indeed is Olds\u2019 genius at its zenith, in exquisitively crafted instruments that are beyond compare.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n Wow. People say I write too much. Also, recognize the use of ellipses instead of periods to create a \u201cbreathless\u201d read. Hmm. Zenith\u2019s a TV, isn\u2019t it?<\/p>\n One final story that I\u2019ve heard, in the distant past, is that the reason why there are so few of these horns remaining is because a ship that was ferrying the bulk of these horns to the US military during WWII was sunk in the Mediterranean Sea. Olds just didn\u2019t have the time to produce more (source<\/a>. Theo Wanne is also cited here<\/a>). That\u2019s an unverified story, of course, but a nice little coda.<\/a><\/p>\n<\/a>Olds Super alto & tenor gallery \u2013 added by Helen<\/span><\/h3>\n
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