{"id":17941,"date":"2025-08-06T09:59:48","date_gmt":"2025-08-06T16:59:48","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/bassic-sax.info\/version5\/?page_id=17941"},"modified":"2025-08-06T09:59:48","modified_gmt":"2025-08-06T16:59:48","slug":"couf-bass-saxes-superba-i-vs-superba-ii","status":"publish","type":"page","link":"https:\/\/bassic-sax.info\/version5\/vintage-saxes\/european-made-saxes\/h-couf\/couf-bass-saxes-superba-i-vs-superba-ii\/","title":{"rendered":"Couf Bass Saxes: Superba I vs. Superba II"},"content":{"rendered":"

The important preamble<\/h2>\n

H. Couf bass saxophones are among the rarest bass saxophones in the world. Why? Because they were handcrafted, Julius Keilwerth-made stencils of the Toneking and Toneking Special bass saxophones. If you haven’t had the chance to try a JK bass, you are missing out on one of life’s great pleasures\u2014assuming you are a sax player of course.<\/p>\n

A few years ago Keilwerth estimated that they had only made approximately 250 bass saxophones in the history of the company, and stated that due to the handcraftsmanship of the model, only 2 or so are produced by special order, per year. I can’t recall when or where I read this JK stat about their basses, but even if it was +\/- 10 years ago, that would bring their total numbers up to a max<\/span> of  < 275 bass saxes produced to date. <\/p>\n

How many H. Couf bass saxes were made?<\/h3>\n

We simply don’t know how many bass saxophones JK made for Herb Couf. We know that based on the early literature, bass saxophones were not listed as being available.1<\/sup><\/a> However, the 1982 (?) pamphlet<\/a> I came across years ago shows the 3100-Bass as a Special Order. Price upon Request.<\/em> (Note that there is Superba II bass shown at all.)<\/p>\n

If someone asked me: How many H. Couf bass saxophones have you seen in your 25 years of bass saxophone research?<\/em> I would have to say: “Probably about 5, and I think I have photos for all of them.”<\/p>\n

Here is how they break down across model lines:<\/p>\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n
Model<\/div><\/td>\n
Serial<\/div><\/td>\n
Photos: Y\/N<\/div><\/td>\n
Source\/Owner<\/div><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
Superba I\u00a0<\/div><\/td>\n
871xx (circa 1983)<\/div><\/td>\n
Y<\/div><\/td>\n
Mine\/Previously Estate of Lance Harrison<\/div><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
Superba I<\/div><\/td>\n
unknown<\/div><\/td>\n
Y<\/div><\/td>\n
joesax.com<\/div><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
Superba I<\/div><\/td>\n
unknown<\/div><\/td>\n
Y<\/div><\/td>\n
jlwoodwindrepair.com<\/div><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
Superba II<\/div><\/td>\n
741xx (circa 1974)<\/div><\/td>\n
Y<\/div><\/td>\n
A Friend of Bassic Sax<\/div><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
Superba II<\/div><\/td>\n
unknown<\/div><\/td>\n
Y<\/div><\/td>\n
thesax.info<\/div><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<\/tbody>\n<\/table>\n
\"bass<\/a>
Couf Superba I bass # 871xx Sink trap neck<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n

What is interesting is that Superba II 741xx, was made about 9 years before the Superba I 871xx, that Lance Harrison ordered from Northwest Music here in Vancouver, BC. This is most curious, since the earlier brochure would indicate that bass saxophones were not on offer at that time<\/a>. It makes me wonder if the Superba II bass I have photos of wasn’t ordered by Herb Couf himself for his store, and eventually sold to the fellow whose son owns it now. But more on that later. <\/p>\n

So what are really the differences between the Superba I & II H. Couf bass saxophones? As you will see below, almost none.<\/p>\n

A quick disclaimer<\/h2>\n

This entire bass section is a work in progress. Why? As outlined in the preamble, the sample sizes that I have been able to gather to date are so small, that at the time of writing I am at best able to provide best guesses<\/em>, rather than my usual fact-based conclusions. Over time I hope to find more Couf bass saxophones to be able to firm up my findings.<\/p>\n

Further limitations with the data include: 1. The data gathered is based only on what can be seen in photos I have managed to find scattered across the Internet, or have been sent to me\u2014or in the case of my own horn, obviously what I can observe firsthand. 2. The quality and quantity of photos is often very limited for each instrument (sample). 3. Any changes not visible to the naked eye\u2014such as bore dimensions for example\u2014are obviously not known. <\/p>\n

If you have a H. Couf bass, please reach out and talk to me<\/a>. I would really like to find out more about your horn and be able to include it in my stats. Thank you! <\/p>\n

What does the term \u201cintermediate\u201d mean in Couf speak<\/em>?<\/h2>\n

Herb Couf said:<\/p>\n

There were three levels of H. Couf saxophones; Superba I, the professional line\u2026. Superba II the intermediate line with many of the same features as the Superba I\u2026<\/p>\n

Source: Saxophone: Ein Kompendium<\/em>, Uwe Ladwig. Second Edition, 2012. p. 59<\/span><\/p><\/blockquote>\n

That said, \u201cintermediate\u201d does not mean inferior, and not up to pro standards. The Superba II were built to the same level of precision that their Superba I cousins were. This is especially true in the bass saxophone line, since Keilwerth only made pro model bass saxophones: Toneking in the 1970s, and Toneking Special in the 1980s 2<\/sup><\/a>. All intermediate<\/em> means in the case of bass saxophones is minor cosmetic differences between the Superba I & II. <\/p>\n

Keeping all of these things in mind, let’s take a look at the five H. Couf bass saxophones I have managed to find to date, and see what makes a I a I, and a II a II.<\/p>\n

Comparison chart<\/h2>\n

Superba I vs Superba II Bass Saxophones<\/h2>\n\n\n\n\n\t\n\n\t\n\t
Model<\/div><\/th>
Range<\/div><\/th>
G# Key<\/div><\/th>
Left Thumb Rest<\/div><\/th>
MOP Keys<\/div><\/th>
Bis Bb<\/div><\/th>
Neck Style<\/div><\/th>
Bell to Body Brace<\/div><\/th>
Clothes Guard<\/div><\/th>
Construction<\/div><\/th>
Lyre Holder<\/div><\/th>
Upper Bow to First Straight Pipe<\/div><\/th>
Upper Bow to Body Tube<\/div><\/th>
Bow to Bell Connection<\/div><\/th>
Bow to Body Connection<\/div><\/th>
RH Pinkie Keys<\/div><\/th>
Chromatic F#<\/div><\/th>
Strap Ring<\/div><\/th>
Tone Holes<\/div><\/th>
Engraving<\/div><\/th>
Logo<\/div><\/th>\n<\/tr>\n<\/thead>\n
Superba I<\/div><\/td>
Bb1 - Eb3 <\/div><\/td>
MOP<\/div><\/td>
Black plastic<\/div><\/td>
Larger, without metal edges. (Like what`s now on the SX90.)<\/div><\/td>
Yes<\/div><\/td>
Sink trap<\/div><\/td>
Heavy duty double \"Y\" attached on both the bell and body tube.<\/div><\/td>
Yes<\/div><\/td>
Post to body<\/div><\/td>
<\/div><\/td>
Soldered directly<\/div><\/td>
Soldered directly<\/div><\/td>
Soldered directly<\/div><\/td>
Uses connecting ring<\/div><\/td>
Rounder<\/div><\/td>
On back of body tube. Horizontal raindrop shaped key.<\/div><\/td>
Thick, flat ring<\/div><\/td>
Straight<\/div><\/td>
Bell & bow<\/div><\/td>
Superba I<\/div><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
Superba II<\/div><\/td>
Bb1 - Eb3<\/div><\/td>
<\/div><\/td>
Black plastic<\/div><\/td>
Smaller button inset within brass \"cup\". Metal edges encircle the pearls.<\/div><\/td>
Yes<\/div><\/td>
Sink trap<\/div><\/td>
Heavy duty double \"Y\" attached on both the bell and body tube.<\/div><\/td>
Yes<\/div><\/td>
Post to body<\/div><\/td>
Just above socket & 1st octave vent on the back of the straight pipe.<\/div><\/td>
Soldered directly<\/div><\/td>
Soldered directly<\/div><\/td>
Soldered directly<\/div><\/td>
Uses connecting ring<\/div><\/td>
Rounder<\/div><\/td>
On back of body tube. Horizontal raindrop shaped key.<\/div><\/td>
Thick, flat ring<\/div><\/td>
Straight<\/div><\/td>
Bell & bow<\/div><\/td>
Superba II<\/div><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<\/tbody>\n<\/table>\n\n

Did you spot the difference? The 5th column notes the MOP keys. The models have different MOP key touches. That’s it. That’s all. <\/strong><\/p>\n

Superba I Bass<\/h2>\n

Unlike their smaller cousins, the Superba I bass does not appear to have different phases in their build. I have not found any significant feature changes over the 3 horns I have seen to date. (Again, this is open to revision as I gather more samples.) That said, there were a couple of minor features that differed over the 3 samples that I have managed to gather over the past 25 years:<\/p>\n

    \n
  1. Only871xx has a high Eb key guard.<\/li>\n
  2. Only 871xx has a fixed metal, vs a fix black plastic right thumb rest. <\/li>\n<\/ol>\n
    Superba I #871xx – Lacquer<\/h5>\nngg_shortcode_0_placeholder\n
    Superba I # unknown – Lacquer<\/h5>\nngg_shortcode_1_placeholder\n
    Superba I # unknown – Lacquer<\/h5>\nngg_shortcode_2_placeholder\n

    Superba II Bass<\/h2>\n

    This horn is very interesting. Its owner died and his son, who is not a saxophone player, inherited it. Clearly this bass was extremely well taken care of. However, much like so many other H. Couf horns, its mere existence is really an enigma. <\/p>\n

    As mentioned above, based on serial # alone, this horn was built at a time when Couf was not advertising bass saxophones as part of their regular lineup.<\/p>\n

    I have come to realize that Herb Couf appears to have ordered special horns from Keilwerth and had them for display at his store in Royal Oak, MI. My 61xxx, Blackgold Superba II bari, circa 1968, appears to have been one of these instruments. It would track that this bass could have been as well. <\/p>\n

    If you carefully compare the photos of this Superba II\u2014which is a stencil of JK’s Toneking\u2014to my Superba I (Toneking Special stencil) you will only see 1 difference: the size of the MOP key touches. <\/strong>This makes sense, because the 1970s Toneking keys had smaller MOP button insets within brass “cups”, with metal edges encircling the pearls. This is illustrated on the bass saxophone<\/a> in the 1970s JK brochure that’s been on this site for years.  <\/p>\n

    Superba II #741xx – Lacquer<\/h5>\n

    ngg_shortcode_3_placeholderUntil the owner of #741xx reached out to me, the following super crappy photos, of a rather beat up Superba II with an unknown serial #, were the only known pics of this model known to exist. As a matter of fact, not even German saxophone historian, Uwe Ladwig, knew that any Superba II bass saxophones existed. The Superba II may truly be the unicorn of the bass saxophone world. <\/p>\n

    Superba II #Unknown- Lacquer<\/h5>\nngg_shortcode_4_placeholder\n

    My personal experience & thoughts about the Superba I\/Toneking Special bass saxophone<\/h2>\n

    I can tell you from personal experience, once you play a JK bass, there is no going back. I sold my Buescher, and I don’t miss it for a minute. This is a very early review I wrote about the horn<\/a> after I first got it. (It should be updated a bit.) <\/p>\n

    The long-wrap Keilwerth has all the tonal advantages of the big, beefy-sounding vintage American style bass, but with some modern build qualities\u2014intonation improvements; no more bass quirks<\/em> that require alternate fingerings; and super-easy E3 and F3 altissimo through overblowing the E2 and F2, making the extra palm keys unnecessary\u2014that blow the current crop of short wrap, and cheap Asian crap away. <\/p>\n

    I have not had the opportunity to play an SX90 bass, but from my conversations with Keilwerth, I understand they are still built the same, using the same design\u2014with further refinements. Hence if you’re looking for a used bass, I would suggest you keep your eyes open for a JK on the market. But this conversation goes beyond the scope of this page, so I encourage you to check out my bass-specific articles<\/a> and pages<\/a> if you are in fact looking for a new, or new-to-you bass. <\/a><\/p>\n

    \n

    1 <\/sup> Undated brochure titled H. Couf Saxophones The New Standard of Excellence<\/a> <\/a><\/em>
    \n2 <\/sup> Keilwerth model chart: Saxophone: Ein Kompendium<\/em>, Uwe Ladwig. Fifth Edition, 2017. p. 171<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

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