{"id":18814,"date":"2025-08-27T09:40:27","date_gmt":"2025-08-27T16:40:27","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/bassic-sax.info\/version5\/?page_id=18814"},"modified":"2025-09-04T14:01:33","modified_gmt":"2025-09-04T21:01:33","slug":"couf-baritones-superba-i-vs-superba-ii","status":"publish","type":"page","link":"https:\/\/bassic-sax.info\/version5\/vintage-saxes\/european-made-saxes\/h-couf\/couf-baritones-superba-i-vs-superba-ii\/","title":{"rendered":"Couf Baritones: Superba I vs. Superba II"},"content":{"rendered":"\n\n\n
Superba I<\/a><\/td>\nSuperba II<\/a><\/td>\nH. Couf Serial # Chart<\/a><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<\/tbody>\n<\/table>\n

What really are the differences between the Superba I and Superba II Couf baritone saxophones? The short answer is: Not as much as you might think, and it all depends on when they was made.<\/p>\n

H. Couf baris did undergo changes over the approx. 22 years that they were produced. It does appear that the earliest horns shared more with their JK cousins than latter horns did\u2014as you will see below. <\/p>\n

A quick disclaimer<\/h2>\n

Unlike the Selmer Mark VI bari\u2014that had some very well documented changes over horn\u2019s production run\u2014very little is known at this point about the H. Couf saxophone\u2019s design changes. To the best of my knowledge, the research I have gathered here is the first real attempt at collating relatively large amounts of data about this J. Keilwerth-made saxophone brand.<\/p>\n

However, there are a number of limitations with this data:<\/p>\n

    \n
  1. The data gathered is based only on what can be seen in photos I have managed to find scattered across the Internet\u2014or in a very few cases in person. This is especially difficult in baritones since many bari sales don’t include photos of all areas of the horn, or focus on areas that are of little interest when trying to establish the models’ evolution.<\/li>\n
  2. The quality and quantity of photos is often very limited for each instrument (sample).<\/li>\n
  3. Any changes not visible to the naked eye\u2014such as bore dimensions for example\u2014are obviously not known.<\/li>\n
  4. In some cases the sample sizes that I have been able to gather to date are so small, that I haven\u2019t been able to conclusively draw any conclusions. There are simply not that many baris compared to altos and tenors.<\/li>\n
  5. Many of these were former school horns and have been badly abused over the years. Parts are missing, and often the horns are sold as parts horns.<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n

    For all these reasons this page continues to be a work in progress. Over time, my hope is to fill in the missing blanks. If you can help in some way, please do not hesitate to drop me a note<\/a>. Thanks!<\/p>\n

    What does the term \u201cintermediate\u201d mean in Couf speak<\/em>?<\/h2>\n

    Herb Couf said:<\/p>\n

    There were three levels of H. Couf saxophones; Superba I, the professional line\u2026. Superba II the intermediate line with many of the same features as the Superba I\u2026<\/p>\n

    Source:  Saxophone: Ein Kompendium<\/em>, Uwe Ladwig. Second Edition, 2012. p. 59<\/span><\/p><\/blockquote>\n

    That said, \u201cintermediate\u201d does not mean inferior, or not up to pro horn standards. The Superba II were built to the same level of precision that their Superba I cousins were. All intermediate means in this case, is that a few minor things were different. (Much like the only difference between JK\u2019s pro and intermediate Toneking and The New King was the presence and absence of a high F# key.)<\/p>\n

    What\u2019s interesting about the Superba IIs, is that the model doesn\u2019t follow the same neat evolutionary trajectory that the Superba I does. Why? Since H. Couf has passed away I\u2019m not sure we will ever truly know for sure. And unless someone invents a time machine and we can go back and talk to the man himself, we likely never will.<\/p>\n

    With all that in mind, it\u2019s time to take a closer look at what makes a I a I, and a II a II, and their various phases and features.<\/p>\n

    Superba I Phases & serials<\/h3>\n

    Phase 1 circa 1965 <\/a> <\/h4> <\/div>

    No serial numbered horn catalogued to date. Only 1 horn catalogued based on features.
    <\/div> <\/div><\/div>

    Phase 2 circa 1966 - 1972<\/a> <\/h4> <\/div>

    serial # range catalogued to date: 55760 – 69970
    <\/div> <\/div><\/div>

    Phase 3 circa 1973 - 1981<\/a> <\/h4> <\/div>

    serial # range catalogued to date: 73957 – 83601
    <\/div> <\/div><\/div>

    Phase 4 circa 1982 - 1987<\/a> <\/h4> <\/div>

    serial # range catalogued to date: 85253 – 91793
    <\/div> <\/div><\/div>
    <\/div>\n

    Superba II Phases & serials<\/h3>\n

    Phase 1 circa 1965 - 1967<\/a> <\/h4> <\/div>

    serial # range catalogued to date: 55xxx range
    <\/div> <\/div><\/div>

    Phase 2 circa 1968 - 1971<\/a> <\/h4> <\/div>

    serial # range catalogued to date: 61xxx – 68784
    <\/div> <\/div><\/div>

    Phase 3 circa 1972 - 1976<\/a> <\/h4> <\/div>

    serial # range catalogued to date: 71998 – 75207
    <\/div> <\/div><\/div>

    Phase 4 circa 1977 - 1987<\/a> <\/h4> <\/div>

    serial # range catalogued to date: 77xxx range
    <\/div> <\/div><\/div>
    <\/div>\n

    A quick and dirty overview chart of the differences between the Superba 1 & 2 baritone saxophones<\/h2>\n

    Why is this quick and dirty? Because it doesn\u2019t account for the various exceptions to the features outlined in it\u2014and in the case of baris, there are A LOT. These exceptions, and much, much more, are gone over in minute detail in the following Superba 1 & 2 pages. So think of this chart as a primer, or a review, if you\u2019re looking for a simple broad strokes listing of what changed when. <\/p>\n

    Superba 1 vs 2 baritones<\/h2>\n\n\n\n\n\t\n\n\t\n\t\n\t\n\t\n\t\n\t\n\t\n\t\n\t\n\t\n\t\n\t\n\t\n\t\n\t\n\t\n\t\n\t\n\t\n\t
    Feature<\/div><\/th>
    Superba 1\/I<\/div><\/th>
    Superba 2\/II<\/div><\/th>\n<\/tr>\n<\/thead>\n
    Low A\/Bb<\/strong><\/div><\/td>
    Available <\/div><\/td>
    Available<\/div><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
    G# key<\/strong><\/div><\/td>
    Phase 1-3 circa 79890 : Black Plastic. Phase 3 79891 - Phase 4: MOP<\/div><\/td>
    Black plastic<\/div><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
    Left thumb rest<\/strong><\/div><\/td>
    Black plastic<\/div><\/td>
    Black plastic<\/div><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
    MOP keys<\/strong><\/div><\/td>
    Larger, without metal edges. (Like what`s now on the SX90.)<\/div><\/td>
    Smaller button inset within brass \"cup\". Metal edges encircle the pearls.<\/div><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
    Pigtail brace<\/strong><\/div><\/td>
    Phase 1 & 2: Single round metal bar with 3 point attachment. Phase 3 & 4: Two. A round metal bar between socket & body tube. And another from body tube to lower part of pigtail.<\/div><\/td>
    Phase 1 & 2: Single round metal bar with 3 point attachment. Phase 3 & 4: Two. A round metal bar between socket & body tube. And another from body tube to lower part of pigtail.<\/div><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
    Bell to body brace<\/strong><\/div><\/td>
    Phase 1-3: Single round metal bar. Phase 4: Flat, wide metal beam.<\/div><\/td>
    Single round metal bar<\/div><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
    Clothes guard<\/strong><\/div><\/td>
    Phase 1: Two, made of Lucite. Phase 2-4: Double length metal.<\/div><\/td>
    Phase 1: single length Lucite. Phase 2-4: single length metal.<\/div><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
    Construction<\/strong><\/div><\/td>
    post to body<\/div><\/td>
    post to body<\/div><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
    Lyre holder<\/strong><\/div><\/td>
    Front, just below upper bow<\/div><\/td>
    Front, just below upper bow<\/div><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
    Bow to bell connection<\/strong><\/div><\/td>
    Soldered directly<\/div><\/td>
    Soldered directly<\/div><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
    Bow to body connection<\/strong><\/div><\/td>
    Phase 1-3: Soldered directly. Phase 4: Uses connecting ring.<\/div><\/td>
    Soldered directly<\/div><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
    RH pinkie keys<\/strong><\/div><\/td>
    Phase 1 -4 until circa 90xxx squarish. Phase 4 circa 90xx onwards: \"new\", round JK style.<\/div><\/td>
    Squarish<\/div><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
    Front F\/Eb key guard<\/strong><\/div><\/td>
    Phase 1: No. Phase 2-4: Yes<\/div><\/td>
    No<\/div><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
    High F#<\/strong><\/div><\/td>
    Phase 1-3: No. Phase 4: Available.<\/div><\/td>
    No<\/div><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
    Chromatic F# key<\/strong><\/div><\/td>
    On back of body. MOP key touch.<\/div><\/td>
    Phase 1-3: On back of body. Horizontal teardrop-shaped key. Phase 4: On back of body. Round MOP key touch.<\/div><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
    Chromatic F# key guard<\/strong><\/div><\/td>
    Yes<\/div><\/td>
    No<\/div><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
    Right thumb rest<\/strong><\/div><\/td>
    Phase 1-3 circa 81xxx: adjustable metal. Phase 3 82xxx - Phase 4: Fixed black plastic. <\/div><\/td>
    Fixed metal<\/div><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
    Strap ring<\/strong><\/div><\/td>
    Thick, flat ring<\/div><\/td>
    Simple metal ring<\/div><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
    Tone holes<\/strong><\/div><\/td>
    Straight<\/div><\/td>
    Straight<\/div><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
    Engraving<\/strong><\/div><\/td>
    Bell & bow<\/div><\/td>
    Bell<\/div><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<\/tbody>\n<\/table>\n\n

    Couf saxophones intonation & some Couf bari trivia  <\/h3>\n

    While it\u2019s true that H. Couf saxophones are known for their good intonation, here\u2019s a fun-fact about the Couf bari: In about 1980, Herb Couf mentioned at a trade fair visit in Frankfurt that the originally-planned neck for the baritone was too long for him. He had Keilwerth shorten the neck by 1 cm, and deliver all new baritones with this shorter neck. Meanwhile the bari players who had such short necks on their horns, ordered the regular length ones because the intonation was problematic for them. 1<\/sup><\/a><\/p>\n

    What year exactly Herb Couf made JK switch the neck length is not cited in Uwe\u2019s work. Nor is there any mention in Uwe\u2019s research when or if Couf switched back to the longer neck length. Given the popularity of Couf bari saxes, and the lack of intonation problems players have with them, we can only assume this was only a brief blip in Couf\u2019s bari development, and is really only more a curiosity than a current problem for owners of these horns.<\/p>\n

    Based on personal experience, I can say with 100% certainty that my 61XXX Superba II bari suffers from no intonation issues.<\/a><\/p>\n

    \n

    1 <\/sup> Saxophone: Ein Kompendium<\/em>, Uwe Ladwig. Fifth Edition, 2017. pp. 66-67.<\/p>\n

    <\/p>\n\n\n\n\n
    Features on all Superba I<\/a><\/div><\/td>\n
    1 vs. I engraving<\/a><\/div><\/td>\n
    Phase 1 baritones<\/a><\/div><\/td>\n
    Phase 2 baritones<\/a><\/div><\/td>\n
    Phase 3 baritones<\/a><\/div><\/td>\n
    Phase 4 baritones<\/a><\/div><\/td>\n
    Exceptions<\/a><\/div><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n
    \u00ab Back to overview<\/a><\/div><\/td>\n
    Superba 2\/II \u00bb<\/a><\/div><\/td>\n
    H. Couf serial # chart<\/a><\/div><\/td>\n
    \u00a0<\/div><\/td>\n
    \u00a0<\/div><\/td>\n
    \u00a0<\/div><\/td>\n
    \u00a0<\/div><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<\/tbody>\n<\/table>\n

    Superba 1\/I Baritone<\/h2>\n

    I have found that the Superba I baritone has 4 phases<\/strong> based on visual characteristics. These 4 phases are described and illustrated below. Additionally however, there are also some features that the Superba I had over its entire 20+ year production cycle at Keilwerth. Those will be illustrated first.<\/a><\/p>\n

    Features common over the entire production run<\/h3>\n