During yesterday’s window shopping excursion on eBay, (the one that turned up yet another Asian-made bass, this one carrying the brand name of Jinbao) I also happened to come across this little diamond in the rough…
Source: eBay.com
This poor vintage bass looks like it has seen much better days.
Source: eBay.com
The seller describes the horn as follows:
RARE “METRO” BASS SAXOPHONE MADE BY CONN, PLAYABLE
you are bidding on an extremely rare bass saxophone, stenciled horn “metro” made for locke music in los angeles probably in the late 40’s or early 50’s. in all probability the horn was made by conn. pads are in good condition and the horn plays.
recent custom case probably cost $500. bass saxophone are almost impossible to find.
i will not ship. local pickup only. horn is in los angeles
of course you are welcome to arrange you own packing & shipping
horn sold strictly as is
Source: eBay.com
Unfortunately the rest of the photos are rather blurry… And I have to ask, what’s up with the neck?
Source: eBay.com
The neck does look like it has been repaired in the past, which makes sense, since the rest of horn shows signs of heavy repair work as well.
Source: eBay.com
But it also looks like the neck stores attached to the horn backwards, while the horn is in its case. This might explain why it was never turned around for any of the photos, especially if the seller doesn’t play sax themselves.
Perhaps the seller does play sax, since he/she states “the horn plays”. However, how well it plays, is left up to the potential buyer’s imagination.
Source: eBay.com
The new case shown here doesn’t seem to have much in the way of padding. I wonder how protective it is?
Source: eBay.com
Since the seller is unwilling to ship the horn, a local buyer, (if a buyer is to be found at all) is the person most likely to end up with the sax.
I know one thing for certain, if I was even the slightest bit interested in this horn, and lived in LA, I’d be sending an email to the seller, and asking to come over to see & play test the instrument before I bid on it. That’s the biggest advantage of buying local.
The auction for this diamond in the rough ends on March 6, 2009. The bids start at $3,950. As of the time of writing, there were 0 bids on the sax.
Hello!
This is quite a coincidence…
I’ve visited this blog several times because I too, am a fanatic of those low saxophones. But I stumbled upon this particular saxophone and it stood out, because it’s the one my high school bought to play in our concert band! I had the privilege of playing it and wow is it a horn. The metal patches by the top shoulder strap ring are identical to the ones shown here and somewhere on this site I had seen a serial number that matched exactly as well.
I had it fixed up (because it was nearly unplayable when we got it) by my local sax guru and he is 99% sure that this is in fact a Conn horn. He estimates the production year is around 1930, give or take a few years.
I don’t know if sharing this helps, but I thought it was uncanny that this sax was the one I had the chance to play. I look forward to reading more on this blog!
– Alex
Hi Alex. Welcome to my site.
This horn has certainly been around. Most recently is was for sale by Paul Maslin at PM Woodwinds. As a matter of fact, I have the photos in my gallery that he posted of the sax on his site. They are interspersed between the rest of this sax’s photos in its album. All of Paul’s photos show the source as PM Woodwind. (Like the one I linked to in the shot of the bell.)
The serial # on the horn starts with a letter. This lettering is indicative of it being an Orsi. That is how Orsi did its serial numbers. Paul Maslin also advertised it as an Orsi. Although Conn stencils often started with letters, often with the letter “P”, this horn looks nothing like any Conn bass saxophones ever made. If you take a look at any of the Conn bass saxophones in my gallery, you’ll see that this Metro has nothing in common with any of them.
Does your school currently have the bass Alex? Are you currently playing it? How does it play after getting fixed up?
The main thing to take away from all this, is that Conn bass saxophones (actually any vintage American brand) are going to play radically different than what you have there. European brands are different animals all together.
Thanks for the visit Alex. I wish I had had the opportunity to play bass in school. You’re very lucky…helen
Honestly, I’m no expert when it comes to assessing brands of vintage saxes. I just go by what they tell me. I was so happy to play a bass that it didn’t matter too much what it was.
While the sax is certainly nothing to look at, it does have a nice sound. It’s one of those, as I’ve heard, finger-buster basses. The keywork is very difficult compared to modern saxes, and it definitely takes some getting used to.
Unfortunately, I am no longer playing this horn. I graduated from my high school last May, but the school still owns it. When we got it from PM Woodwinds (the Paul Maslin site), it was “playable” but just barely. There were major leaks with the octave key and several pads and corks needed replacing. It played much better after repair, but not quite perfect.
There was one problem that the repair man could not fix: this sax does not have a proper neck! After examination, we found that the neck that came with this sax is actually a bari neck that has been augmented to fit the bass. It appears as though some extra length of brass cylindrical tubing was added to the end of the neck under where the cork is located. You can even see the solder line where this piece was attached. We compared the neck to a modern bari neck and sure enough, the line on the “bass neck” matched up with the end of the bari one. Who would have guessed?
Long story short, this “franken-neck” causes some MAJOR tuning problems for the horn, and a few of the notes still tend to gurgle on occasion, especially low E and F. The notes that matter (low D and down) however, come out loud and resonant without fail!
I apologize if this response is too long winded, but this sums up the majority of my experience with it. Thanks for clearing up some of the misconceptions!
– Alex
Hi there Alex.
No need to apologize for being long-winded. It’s great that you were able to describe the horn in such detail.
I know a number of people who looked at the horn at PM Woodwind. I even received an email from someone who bought it. From what you write though, I see he sent it back during the trial period.
The neck never did look quite right to me, and what you say now explains it. Yes, someone did add something to the end of the neck. I’m not sure it’s a bari neck, it could have been a bass neck that had been extended, since a bari neck has a much smaller tenon, and is much shorter. A number of years ago we had a fellow on the Bass Sax Co-op who played his vintage bass with an adapted tenor neck, because the original was missing.
In any event, this horn definitely has some challenges, which explains why it floated around for sale as long as it did, and as often as it did from seller to seller. It’s a shame really, because a Gloger neck would fix the problem once and for all.
Thanks for the return visit Alex. I hope you find enough stuff here to keep you checking in occasionally….helen
It’s really not that bad off spare the patch on the neck.
Tom Goodwin if you’ve heard of him has it at the moment. Said the workmanship looks like Orsi, and with the left hand bell keys and nail file G Sharp.
Conn never made a bass with two left side bell keys to my knowledge
The Conn’s also had crossbar bell braces.
Can’t be a Buescher cuz the bell isn’t big enough.
In the 50’s the italians had the left bell thing going on and were on a nail file G# kick.
I haven’t seen a picture of an Orsi branded bass before, but it look similar to the bari’s so…
I’ll let you know what’s going on, it looks like I may have found a Martin for under $3k, so that may be best with it being Martinmods and all
I’ve attached a catalogue drawing of an Orsi bass, but it is newer then this Metro. Not sure when the catalogue is from, but the person who sent me the pages thought it might be from the 60s.
You might very well be better off with an American-style bass. In any event, I’ll be following your progress with great interest. Good luck Tom!
Hey Helen,
I know where the horn is and at the moment am thinking about buying it for my Frankenhorn project.
It was made by Orsi for reference. It actually is a pretty solid horn and plays surprisingly well. The bell looks like it has the original pads but the Bb will bark if asked. Still exploring other options, but this one looks promising. Sounds really nice actually
This would be an interesting choice Tom, since it’s already starting out as a Frankenhorn… 😈 …At least in the looks department. Since Lance would be doing the work, I don’t think the end product would be a Frankenhorn at all. It will however be a one of kind, that’s for sure.
Good luck with the project. Let me know if you decide to go for this one. Interesting that you say it’s an Orsi. I’ll have to pull out my old Orsi bass pics and take a look. I don’t remember any Orsi looking this way, but then I might not have seen an Orsi that’s this old either. But then on the other hand, if they made it for reference, it might be a one of, so it might be unique.
I need so more then Bassic help lol
I am a Bass saxophonist for the Philadelphia Mummers and i just bought my own Bass saxophone today. Its a 1920 Conn, which has seen way better days.
I do NOT have anywhere near the money to go and get this professional fixed up. The only problem is the keys are all off, all the springs are attached and no sodder work needs to be done. I need HELP!
I need instructions on how to put this bad boy together and apply the pads, also ill need a method of cleaning it.
PLEASE~! Give me any advice and tips and also Instructions haha on how to make this 1920 beauty sound like new.
Thanks
Bill Rhoda
Hi Bill. Welcome to my site, and to the world of bass sax ownership.
Yes, it sounds like you certainly have your work cut out for you with your recent acquisition. Advanced, rather than bassic 😉 help is called for, that’s certainly clear.
First off, if you’re not already a member, I strongly suggest that you join the Bass Sax Co-operative. It’s a Yahoo Group with over 370 members in it. Many of the members are professional players with years of experience on bass sax. Also there, you’ll find repair techs who have many years experience working on bass saxophones. You have to be a member to see the posts (cuts out all the spam that way). Membership is free. The list is moderated by Paul Coats, who is one of the people I would suggest that you contact.
I bought my bass from Paul in 2000. My Buescher was the first vintage bass that Paul had ever rebuilt. Since then Paul has been gaining lots of experience and knowledge regarding all things bass. He is a very knowledgeable and giving man. I have found him only very happy to share his knowledge with those that ask.
I’m sure you’ve already thought of this, but is there someone in the Mummers band you play in that can help you with this? While perhaps not a tech, I’ve found that sometimes some players have been doing their own repairs for years, and have their own repair tools. This is especially true for vintage horn players that have specialized or unusual horns like the bass (although in your part of the world, the bass would hardly be considered “unusual” 😀 ).
I guess for me the big question would be are all the keys there? Are all the rods present? Rods that are missing can be made, but missing keys are problematic. What about the all the little screws? I’m not sure if these horns had set screws or not, but if they did, are they present? All those kinds of things are the things that someone with a working knowledge of vintage Conn bass saxophones, will be able to help you with.
Ideally, you should really get the horn looked at by a competent tech, who knows bass saxophones, so you know what you’re facing. This would be my first course of action if I was in the situation you’re in. Then I could make some informed decisions about what to do.
Perhaps you might consider getting some of the work done by a tech now, and then then getting it fine-tuned down the road as you’ve put more money put aside. I’ve known lots of players who have done just that.
Anyways, those are my initial thoughts. Let me know what you think.
You can also post a picture of your sax if you like. If you do, perhaps you might want to use the Questions & Suggestions page. Now that you’ve posted a comment already, you should have not problem posting another without having to be approved (providing you use the same computer, or the same IP address).
Thanks for stopping by. Please keep me in the loop.
Regards,
Helen
Update: This horn is on eBay again with a Buy It Now price of $3000.00. (Price drop of just under a $1,000 from the starting bid price from last time.)
The ad has all new photos, but they are even more blurry than these ones. The text for the ad is exactly the same however.
The auction for this Metro bass sax ends on June 18. At the time of writing there was 1 offer on the sax.
This poor bass does not appear to have sold this time either. The auction ended yesterday on the 18th, with only the 1 offer on the horn. Nothing on the listing indicates that the horn sold. 😕
Update: The auction ended with 0 bids on this bass saxophone.
Ah, the chances of it playing well…Mmm, let’s say I’d not be putting good money down on that bet. 🙂
That case looks moocho scary to me too. It looks like one of those cases that one might carry a fiberglass sousaphone in. I wonder what it’s made of? As for it costing $500… I wonder…
IMHO, whoever spent good $ on that case, should have just sprung for a case from one of the suppliers that we’ve talked about on the Bass Sax Co-Op. At least then the case would have been protective, and made for a bass saxophone, by a company that knew what it was doing. (BTW, did you notice the foam “accessory” pieces meant to provide padding.)
What’s also missing from the case is a belt, which would be used to help support the bell during transport. This for me, is quite an important feature in a case for a vintage bass saxophone… Especially for one which has such a poor, single bell/body brace as this one has.
D’oh! You beat me to the punch.. I posted both these horns on SotW today thinking I was so cool.. Not! haha
It’s a shame I don’t have an extra 4k laying around because I would be so down for getting that horn.. if it plays well. I would of course have to test it out. That case looks pretty scary to me though. I’m tempted to find this guy just so I can play the horn just for the heck of it.. >:)