I love my Dukoff mouthpieces. I have 1 new and 4 vintage Dukoff pieces for tenor, and they are a huge contributor to my sound. I’ve been playing Dukoffs exclusively now for over 12 years—ever since my tech in Halifax gave me my first D7* to try out.
When I first tried the D7* in Layne’s shop I squeaked, but he told me to take the piece home with me and work at it for a bit. It was quite a bit different to the metal Berg and Wolf Tayne pieces that I’d been using since high school.
It took no time at all before I had the Dukoff under control, and realized how powerful the piece was. Altissimo had never been easier, subtones had never been as lush. In under a month I had the Dukoff’s nuances completely figured out.
Because Dukoffs are high baffle/small chamber pieces, they require a totally different approach than the low baffle/large chamber pieces many experienced players switch from, and all beginning players start on.
To help you understand what this means, here’s a diagram of a mouthpiece. The term baffle refers to the roof of the mouthpiece chamber.
Source: mouthpieceexpress.com
Dukoffs require you to change your airstream, and quite possibly, the amount of mouthpiece you have in your mouth. Your embouchure wheel on these pieces is also critical. Being aware of your muscles, and how you control them evenly is paramount.
If you’re not familiar with, or would like more information on the embouchure wheel, start reading on page 41 of your copy of Larry Teal’s, The Art Of Saxophone Playing. Don’t have a copy? Get one. You can order it through Amazon.com, or your local brick and mortar store.
The reason I’m rambling on about my favourite mouthpiece, is because over the years lots of people have talked to me about my sound. They’ve wanted to try my mouthpieces, and when they do, they end up with the same squeaking problem that I had in the beginning. No problem. As I just finished pointing out, that’s quite normal.
This morning however, I read a thread on Sax On The Web where a new owner of a Dukoff was looking for advice. He had recently bought a refaced Dukoff, and was having terrible squeaking problems. This was not this player’s first Dukoff. The first one he bought squeaked as well, which is why he opted for a refaced model the second time around.
Some very knowledgeable players chimed in with all kinds of advice for his squeaking problem. However, some of this advice seemed—at least to me—like it was beating a dead horse. :beat:
Personally, I don’t think you should have to work that hard to learn to play a mouthpiece. I would never suggest to one of my students that they try for a month before giving up. Furthermore, I think an experienced player can tell in very short order if a mouthpiece is right for them—and a Dukoff is a mouthpiece for experienced players.
Love ’em or hate ’em, Dukoffs—just like every other mouthpiece on the market—are not for everyone. In the end they are just a tool that helps us achieve our sound. Different players use different tools to get a similar sound.
Remember too, that a large portion of our sound comes from our insides, and is determined before it reaches the mouthpiece and reed. For more information on this, check out the article I wrote on The Source Of Tone.
Dukoffs are very good, until they aren’t, and eventually not even playable. It is that simple – they don’t last because they are so fragile. Normal use causes them to deform. I have purchased several – but will never buy one again. Maybe they are a treat for school band players, but not for the professional, semi-professional or anyone who relies on a high quality mouthpiece to last for years with frequent use. The company also does not stand behind their products -very poor customer service!
To put this into perspective – I have also owned and used Otto Links, Wolfe Taynes, and Berg Larsons for longer than the Dukoffs. They all were not as “exciting” to use as the Dukoffs at first…but they all are still working very well, while the Dukoffs are now trash.
Hi there Michael. Welcome to my site.
Clearly your view differs from that of myself, and thousands of other Dukoff users. Are the Dukoff MP’s you bought all new?
That is a pretty bold statement, and quite frankly, totally incorrect. Firstly, I can’t think of a school band director who would allow a Dukoff in his/her ensemble. Secondly, I can only think of one or two student I have come across, who would be able to play on a Dukoff MP.
To say that professionals can’t rely on them is simply ridiculous. I can name you many pros who have used them for years, and continue to use them. Many of those are studio musicians in LA.
Although not a studio musician, I played professionally for years with my same vintage S7—that was used when I got it. I also have a vintage D7* that I got at the same time. Although I no longer play 5+ hours a day/7 days a week on the pieces, they are no different than when I got them 20 or so years ago. Both are circa 1960s or early 70s. Yes, I do have 2 D7 vintage pieces as back-up in case something were to happen to either one of my main pieces, but that’s just b/c I have back-ups for my back-ups. 😉
I do have 1 new Dukoff MP, but I don’t play it enough to be able to comment on its durability vs. the vintage pieces I have played for 2 decades.
Clearly, I have also not had to deal with the company, therefore can also not comment on what their customer service is like now that Bobby Dukoff has passed away.
Yes, I too have a slew of other MP brands. I own a Wolf Tayne and Berg Larsen (no Link though). Clearly, they will take abuse much better than a Dukoff will. They are made of much harder metals/alloys.
For me, and the other players I have spoken with about this, much of it comes down to how the MP’s are treated. If they are well looked after, there is no reason why they won’t last a lifetime. Yes, they are easily nicked, or otherwise damaged. Yes, accidents can happen. Yes, some people also just don’t look after their stuff.
But at the end of the day, for me the take away is this: The MP is a tool a player uses to help achieve a particular sound. Different players prefer certain tools, and certain sounds. There are thousands of players who successfully and happily use Dukoff MP’s as their main sound tool with no issues. The difference is we just don’t hear about/from them.
“There are thousands of players who successfully and happily use Dukoff MP’s as their main sound tool with no issues. The difference is we just don’t hear about/from them.”
As a member of the society for the appreciation of classical Dukoff I have to react.
It took me less than an hour to get used to a crystalite and I am playing successfully and happily on the same MP for 30 years.
No Dukoff back-up necessary.
I think he was referring the Silverite pieces. As for the Crystalite ones, I agree, they are no more fragile than say the Runyons, or Conn Comets.
Speaking of Dukoff, I don’t know what’s going on over there, but their website is fubared. When I visited it a few weeks ago Google had flagged it as possibly being hacked. Then it was still navigable. Today however, it is most definitely hacked, and full of junk code. I don’t know what they haven’t taken it offline while they fix the problem. Not good for the company’s image.
Hi Helen,
I’m planning to buy a same D7* but I did not find anything about its tip opening. Could you help me?
Thanks
Zsolt
I did a quick search for Dukoff facing chart, and came up with 2 very good resources. The first is on saxophone.org, while the other is on theowanne.com
A few things to remember: These are measured in thousandths of an inch, however, individual pieces may vary. Even if a piece hasn’t been altered by a refacer, it has been my experience that MPs are not necessarily perfect in design. This is especially true in the vintage pieces, built prior to computerization in the manufacturing process.
That said, the tip openings listed will give you an idea of approximately what you’re looking at.
Hope this helps…helen
Hi Helen,
Thank you for your effort. I think I’m going to buy that D7*.
Best regards
Zsolt
In the big band I play in, I use a vintage D7*. This is really my main piece for jazz of all sorts when it comes to tenor. That said, I don’t notice that big a difference—any really—when I switch to either of my vintage D7s that I have in my MP drawer as backup pieces.
For rock, electric blues, etc, I use a vintage S7. I use the same reeds (Legere Signature Series 2 1/4) and don’t really notice the difference in tip opening either. So either the * in my D7* isn’t really that big a difference, or my particular MP is one of those that was not as precisely made back in the day.
Either way, I guess my point is, order the D7*, but if you have a chance to try both in at a music store, do. I’m not sure you’ll notice much—or perhaps any—difference.
Yesterday I bought it. Unfortunatley there was no other Dukoff (private seller). I would like to try a D8 because my current mouthpiece is a .110 . I was playing on Dukoff for just a few minutes but I did not feel so big measure different and I felt comfortable there was no squeaking etc. I hope that will fit me.
Hello from Denmark
I bought my Richard Keilwerth Solo tenorsax second hand in 1994. I have no idea how old it is. It came with a Bobby Dukoff mouthpiece. There’s the number 7 written on it.
Today I went to a repair shop with my saxophone. The man had a good look at the saxophone and also saw my mouthpiece. He said that it was a good mouthpiece. But also asked me if I had heard that it contains poison? Because it was made of metal from the airplane industry?? He said I could find out more about that issue on forum threads all over the Internet. But no luck for me yet? Have you ever heard about this issue? That the Bobby Dukoff metal mouthpiece is bad for your health?
Best regards
Jonas
Hi Jonas. Welcome to my website.
First up, let me ask what you think of you Richard Keilwerth saxophone.
As for the Dukoff mouthpiece you have, I’m not sure where you tech might have heard something like this. In the early 1970s, Bobby Dukoff switched his metal mouthpiece material from brass to an alloy called silverite. This alloy is of course very soft, and is very easily damaged. I have known players who have used these Dukoff silverite pieces for decades, and have suffered no ill effects. I myself have used them for nearly 20 years now as well.
I did a bit of research just now to see if the metal composition of silverite had been analyzed, and I found this posting on Sax on the Website.
An X-ray particular material appraisal gun was used to check what the unplated silverite mouthpiece’s metal composition was. According to the findings, it was: 98.32% Sn (Tin) and 1.68% Cu (Copper), which makes the silverite basically a tin alloy.
I am not a pilot, nor am I an aviation expert. However, to my knowledge tin is not used in the manufacturing of airplanes. Aluminum and titanium are the most common metals I think. (You really wouldn’t want an airplane built from something as soft as a Dukoff mouthpiece, would you? I’m just saying…)
That said, you will always find people who subscribe to conspiracy theories, or believe that X caused Y, and nothing you say will change their mind.
In the end it is up to an individual player if he or she chooses to use a metal mouthpiece—be it silverite, brass, stainless steel, or a mystery metal from some manufacturer from by-gone days—or use a hard rubber or plastic piece. I personally don’t see a risk in using a silverite Dukoff piece. But that’s just me.
IMHO, if I’m going to die or get ill from something, it certainly isn’t from being poisoned by my Bobby Dukoff mouthpieces.
Regards,
Helen
Decades ago I did some research on toxicology and looked in the discussions around metal poisoning and brass instruments.
Silverite is a form of pewter, which is safe for drinking cups, when it does not contain too much led. As tin and copper ads up to 100.00% and no trace of led is found it seems safe.
I remember that the first discussion on toxicology and Dukoff mouthpieces was on rhodium plating of brass mouthpieces. The pewter discussion was just a misinformed echo.
Hi Helen,
I have just started using Dukoff on my Selmer baritone mrk.VI ’59 as my conductur in the big band wanted more volume. So I bought a vintage D7 and a L7, it took some time to get the squeaking out, especially the the ligature is very vry essential to get a nice powerfull tone.
Hi Bo,
The Dukoff I use on my tenor is also a bit ligature dependent.
Which type of lig is your favorite?
I use a lightweight plastic type.
Theo
Hi Helen I have just bought a new D7 dukoff from the U.S.for my saprano SM80 and am having a bit of a squeak lol. It was such a long time ago that I can’t even remember how I broke my M6 for alto and my D8 for tenor mk6 sax’s , any tips and advice please, thanks mark
Hi Mark. Welcome to my site.
OK. This is take 2. I had the entire reply finished, and then I when went to hit the reply button, the cancel button was selected as well, so the entire comment was lost. :pissed:
You mention that you got a “new” Dukoff. I’m going to assume that by new you mean brand new. Since you’re a Dukoff player already, you know that squeaking is just par for course as you learn to play on the piece. That said, I didn’t have a squeaking problem per say, when I got my brand new Dukoff D7 for tenor.
I think I’ve mentioned here that the new Dukoffs are not like the old ones, so a player familiar with the old style Dukoffs needs to approach these new style mouthpieces like they are new mouthpieces, and not Dukoffs at all. With these new D series pieces, the company seems to have combined the characteristics of a number of its louder chambers all into one piece. I have not tried the new D chamber soprano piece, so I can’t say for sure that’s what they’ve done with it, but you could check their website to find more info, and send them an email.
However, because you are switching to soprano, this is a whole different animal. The rules that applied before will certainly not apply now with this new piece. You will just have to experiment until you find the correct embouchure and tongue positioning.
I’m wondering if there’s any problems with the piece itself. Are the rails and tip free of chips and scratches? Are the rails even? Etc. etc.
The other to keep in mind is that just because brand X works well for you on horn Y, doesn’t mean it will on horn Z. For example, although I play Dukoffs on tenor, I play a Berg on bari. For alto, although I have a Dukoff, I usually use a Runyon Custom with a spoiler, which is coincidentally what I also play on my soprano.
Anyways, those are just a few of my thoughts. I’m going to try and hit the reply button now, but not before saving this. I don’t feel like trying take 3 this AM…helen
Very good info!!! I just purchased a brand new Tenor D8 replacement for older chipped model and it is driving me crazy w squeaking My old Dukoff never did and this one does feel very different!
I will try to keep working w it as Dukoff will not reply to my email.
Hi Paul. Welcome to my website.
Yes, the new Dukoff isn’t your father’s Dukoff. 😉
It has been a couple of years since I tried to play my new D7, but I remember that the approach I had to take to it was so different, that I had to basically forget everything I knew about playing a Dukoff. I literally had to reboot my brain and start from scratch, and say: Helen, this is not a Dukoff, learn to play this from scratch.
I never put the time in to learn the beautiful, lush subtones, etc that the MP is capable of. I know it can do it, since my good friend Ray Myers plays on the new pieces and sound amazing on them. He sounds just like he did on his old Dukoffs. But Ray did tell me that I needed to not play it like my old piece. He told me: Pretend this is a brand you’re trying for the first time, and you’re having to learn how to get all that you can out of it.
The reason I never put the time in, is because I have 4 vintage pieces that all do the job I want. When I play rock, R&B, or blues, I use an S7, my jazz piece is a D7*, plus I have 2 beautiful old D7s that I got from Ray. It’s unlikely in my lifetime that I will ever need to use the new-style D7, but if I ever want/need to, I have it around. (A bit of GAS, sure, but more like a Dukoff hoarder in the event something happening to my main piece, I have back-ups, since they are “my sound”.) 😉 Hey, I can justify anything.
How are you doing now? Is it getting easier to get the sound you want?
I’m surprised Dukoff is not responding to your email. I wonder what’s up at the company…. Strange…
I’ve played on one before during jazz class and i loved it!!! It’s got a rougher sound and as soon as I played it I fell in love with it! 😯
Hi Dana.
Yes, Bobby Dukoff mouthpieces are not cheap, but they are certainly not the most expensive mouthpieces either.
Although I have a lot of Dukoff mouthpieces, none of mine are for sale. I am not a dealer, nor do I sell any of my gear. I just have a lot of them because the are a huge part of my sound.
There are lots of places that sell Dukoff mouthpieces, you’ll have to shop around and see what you can pick up used. Although the new pieces are nice as well… Just very different.
I’m surprised that your band teacher would allow Dukoff mouthpieces in jazz class. Do you know what facing it was? D? L? M? X? Was it a new model? Or was it a vintage mouthpiece?
With the Dukoffs you have to be really careful, because the metal they are made of is very soft. Buying used pieces can be risky if you buy online, especially if you’re buying from a private seller, since you likely can’t get your money back if the tip or rails are damaged.
Tell me a bit about the one you played…helen
The flip side of this is that if you find a damaged one, it can be re-worked with the same techniques you might use on a hard rubber mouthpiece — whereas a stainless steel piece mostly can’t. While the stainless steel piece is less likely by far to get damaged, this does not mean it starts out perfect (like your bari Berg).
Speaking of that, I still think that bari Berg can be whipped into shape and be a good player. It’s just going to take an obnoxiously long time because it’s stainless.
You know Mal-2, I had forgotten about that piece again. I’ve got way too much going on to remember a mouthpiece that I have never used, and never will be able to.
About a year ago I had checked with 3 different mouthpiece guys about getting work done on it, and none would work on stainless steel pieces.
Why don’t you keep the Berg. I know you like to tinker and hack away at stuff, so it can be a project for you. I will never do anything with it, so you’re more than welcome to keep it, and do whatever with it. If you get it to play great. If you don’t, use it as a door stop or whatever. Sound good? If you do get it to play sometime, record something, and send me a link to the sound file. That’s all I ask.
I only ask if you do plan to get rid of it down the road (after getting it to play) that you give me first offer of refusal.
I want to buy a Bobby Dukoff mouthpiece but they are pretty spendy and i don’t know if my parents would let me get one. What is the lowest price that you have for a tenor mouthpiece?
I got a barely used one secondhand for $115. Although I liked it, I liked one of the other two mouthpieces I bought at the same time better. It is now Helen’s. I knew she liked them and I knew it was a reasonably good one, I just had something that suited me better.
Even new they’re about $165 last I checked. They’re not cheap, but they’re not insanely expensive either. VINTAGE Dukoffs tend to be expensive because not that many of them survive intact. While you may want one at some point, don’t go down that road yet. The new ones aren’t better or worse, just different. If you ARE going to go vintage, try to get one made out of brass as those are quite a bit sturdier than Silverite.
I think Dukoffs have a certain reputation because of the extremes that they are capable of… The brash sound you mention… But as you say, that’s certainly not all they are capable of. Even my favourite piece—a vintage S7, which was the brightest available at the time—is capable of incredible lushness. It subtones beautifully, and I can make it sound like anything I want. My other vintage pieces are all Ds (one D*) and they are very rich-sounding, but very edgy of course when I want them to be as well.
The Dukoff Ds are the brightest of the lot, and are currently being described on the Dukoff website like this:
I find that the new D chamber is more like the S chamber of old, but requires a very different approach. I figured out the best way to approach the piece is not play it like a Dukoff, but rather play it like it’s a new mouthpiece altogether. When I started doing that, suddenly the entire bottom end started to open up for me on the new piece, and it started to sound more like my vintage pieces with regards to its richness.
You are right of course, in that Bobby Dukoff has designed a number of other chambers that are not nearly as in your face, and are much more suited to playing nicer with others—and by that I mean especially with other sax players, and bands where the sax is not necessarily to be a lead instrument.
The L chamber is a specialty model which has a “darker” sound (according to the Dukoff website). Then there are the M & X chambers. Both have rounder and fuller sounds, than either model listed previously. Apparently the X chamber is to be the best for ensemble work because it has the “widest open projection of all the models”.
The models I’ve listed above were all for tenors. For alto your choices are currently limited to D, M, & X chambers, while for soprano the choices are only D & M.
I think there are lots of people who don’t like Dukoffs regardless of what chamber they try. For whatever reason, they and the Dukoff don’t get along. That’s OK. Not every mouthpiece is for every player. That’s why it’s good to have so many options out there.
When one of my students decides to make the leap from student to pro mouthpiece, I always tell them: Take your time. Play lots of different pieces. Gone are the days of having your choices limited to: Bergs, Links, Meyers, Vandorens, Dukoffs, and maybe if you’re lucky (like I was) a Tayne.
For the Dukoffs are the real thing. The Rocksax mouthpiece!! It started in the the mid 70´s. My teacher was playing a SML tenor with a Dukoff D chamber. I was on a King Super 20 with Berg Larsen mouthpiece. I liked my teachers sound so I tried the Dukoff on my King. After that I was stuck. Even when I swap the King for Martin.
Today I’m playing Dukoff D6-Conn ss -25, Dukoff D7-The Martin Alto/Comm II and Dukoff D9(open up to c 0.130 and baffle slightly taken down)-The Martin Baritone. I played Dukoff on my Martin tenors for a many years(D7/X7, D8/X8 and even a LD10, it was too hard for me to handle) but for two years ago I thought it was time for a change. I bought a Rovner Deep-VD40 #8.
I still have all my Dukoffs tenor mouthpieces! You never know …
I know the new Dukoffs are not the same beasts as the vintage ones, though they do have a similar purpose and mindset to them. The one that passed briefly through my hands on its way to you was not all that hard to play, and I might well have kept it were it not for the fact that the Saxscape Downtown Studio did almost everything the Dukoff did, and had more of a relaxed side available when needed. Pushed hard, they both sound pretty similar.
I do have a vintage Dukoff that I love, though it is heavily modified and doesn’t even pass the “pop test”. The chamber has been opened up about as much as it’s possible to open a mouthpiece of this metal and design without having it implode, and it consequently sounds more like a bright Link than a Dukoff, but it still has the superior response and tight focus the brand is known for. Another SOTW denizen played it when I was trying to sell the YTS-21. He was kinda blah about the horn (there ARE tens of thousands out there just like it) but REALLY wanted the mouthpiece. I just couldn’t bear to part with it, since it’s the first thing I’d reach for if I got a call to play tenor in a big band — not the Link (too tame and poor altissimo response), not the Saxscape (too boisterous), not even the Drake Contemporary (insufficient altissimo response on tenor, though it’s awesome on C-mel).
Dukoffs don’t have to be brash and all up in your face to be awesome. Just because they often ARE doesn’t mean that’s the only thing they can do. The less aggressively baffled models are worthy of consideration as well, and they’re easy to modify (and damage, unfortunately) because they are so soft. If you can find something that works as well and feels as good in a more durable material, go for it — but don’t rule out Dukoffs just because you don’t like the sounds of certain people who play them. They’re not all alike.