While it is true that over the last number of years Asian horns have been improving in quality, a lot of what’s coming over from the Far East is still crap. I’m sorry, did I offend you? You’ll have to get over it then, because it’s true.
I’m not going to name brand names—since brand names are relatively meaningless with the amount of stencilling going on at present—but many of the rock-bottom-priced, Asian import horns are garbage. Don’t believe me? Well just play one. Or better yet, take one to your tech and get his/her input.
Most techs will tell you that these ultra cheap horns are not worth serious repairs, and in some cases even repads. It would be like throwing good money after bad.
Now before you start wanting to send me hate mail, or start wanting to flame me on my own blog, let me share something with you. This arrived in my In box this morning. I have removed all the company information, and any data that might give away the factory in question. I offer this up to you for something to think about:
Dear …
Hope all is well with you…
We are XXXXXXXXX in China. We manufacture fine wind instruments, we have sold them for many years, the quality has been confirmed by the customers.
Our brass material is from Taiwan and waterproof leather and wool felt pads with metal tone boosters are from Italy.
In order to extend our sales market, we will offer a lowest price. Now we have good saxophones, I recommend them to you, hope you are interested in them. The quality and the sound are very good, and that the price is very competitive in the market.
In order to let you know more detailed information, I send some photos to you, please look at them.
The prices are as follows:
Alto sax with gold lacquer is US$ 185.00 . [emphasis added]
Soprano sax with gold lacquer is US$ 185.00.
Tenor Sax with gold lacquer is US$ 235.00.
If you have any questions, please let me know….
All my best and good luck with your business….
Notice the prices? This factory is still making money obviously. Now you tell me, what quality of alto would be available for $185.00, or tenor for $235.00?
The idea here would be that I order from company X, and stencil these saxes with the Bassic Sax brand, and then turn around and sell them for what? Well for whatever I freakin’ well want, and for whatever the market will bear.
Just go to eBay and check out what kinds of cheap horns a person can buy, and what they cost. You’ll likely never know what company made those horns you’re looking at. You’ll also not know anything about their build quality until you get the saxophone in your hands.
Here’s the problem that I see with all this: these horns are destroying the saxophone business. We’ve seen the established, European saxophone manufacturers fold like a bad poker hand over the past decade. And these were the European manufacturers who survived the original, Asian onslaught of the then-cheap horns in the 1970s. Now in a weird twist of fate, those same Asian companies are suffering because of the new, cheaper, Asian upstarts—many of whom produce crap.
Maybe I’m a pessimist, but I don’t see a rosy future for the saxophone industry. I see further expansion of these cheap, Asian horns into the Western markets, and us buying this crap.
Whether we’re buying these P.O.C. out of economic necessity, or simply because we’ve become programed to think that even big ticket items like major appliances, PCs, and cars will break down in under 7 years, I couldn’t tell you. One thing is clear: somewhere along the line mediocrity has become the accepted norm. Doing just OK, has now become good enough. This has been carried forward to the consumer goods we buy, and saxophones are sadly no exception to this rule.
Worst case scenario: a near total collapse of established saxophone manufacturers with a strong history… Gee, perhaps we’re already there? This could lead to more speciality shops like Benedikt Eppelsheim starting up. Only these new shops would specialize in pro model, high end saxophones for players who demand a higher quality conventional saxophone… Oh let’s see, we got one of those as well, they’re called Inderbinen.
Perhaps the end times are upon us already? Nah, we’d have to start seeing more of these types of small, speciality sax shops pop up, and Selmer Paris collapse. Anyone wanna’ bet how long it’s going to be before we see this happen?
But you know what? It doesn’t have to. It’s a bit like environmental change: We all have the collective power to stop it.
I recently tried out a silver alto saxophone with gold hardware that did not have a name, only the serial number sa3043663 and “made in taiwan.” it’s a selmer knock off or a knock off of a knock off. It isnt a bauhaus walstein. It may be a chinese taishan. If you have any information, that would be appreciated.
This sax was constructed with high quality, weighty materials and superb craftsmanship. I perused the sax for inferior workmanship. On top of that, it appears to be silver plated. It was constructed in an exceptional manner as to prove a point.
It played and sounded very much like my selmer. I was surprised, even exasperated. This did not go unnoticed. As a result, I couldn’t haggle over the 500 dollar asking price. I’m going to buy it nevertheless. I’m remain curious of its origin.
I was scanning some of your recent post and notice that this one, with it’s provocative title, lulled many of us from our Summer doldrums, well enough to respond anyway. I keep waiting for the retiring Baby Boomers to start buying their dream instruments. Gawd knows the “Sax on the Web” and “Woodwind” forums have so much written about GAS (gear acquition syndrom). The industry really could benefit from an uptick in purchases.
The sad fact is that “military band” instruments in general are no longer a growth industry — if anything, the pie is shrinking. Also, much like the computer industry, we have reached a point of saturation where people have the necessary essentials and they have to be talked into upgrading. (Unlike computers, band instruments don’t become obsolete in a matter of a few years.) Some of these cheap Chinese horns are “seconds” — horns that the original ordering company rejected, or made from leftover parts that the original ordering company never even saw. Also, it does happen that sometimes the original contracted production run is completed, and the factory keeps on churning them out anyhow. (This is most likely the origin of Mason Pro C melody horns — overrun from the Aquilasax contract.) In such cases you’d either be getting a horn deemed inadequate by the original ordering company, or at least built on an older design while they have moved on and made improvements. (Again, I have heard the C-mels showing up are based on the Aquilasax tooling from two or three years ago, not what he’s using now.)
In some of the overrun cases, these horns are being dumped rather than destroyed, and they’ll take whatever they can get for them. They’re already a sunk cost, and were likely factored into the original bid they made when they took on the contract in the first place. That’s why they can be unreasonably cheap — in a sense, they’re ALREADY paid for.
I know some of the companies contracting to the factories have stepped up and enforced quality control (Cecilio comes to mind — their “pro” models are actually decent horns, while the others are still absolute crap), but they are completely unable to control what goes out the back door. For one thing, it takes constant vigilance to keep the factories from cutting corners wherever possible. This is not limited to saxophones, think of the “toys with cadmium” and “pet food with melamine” recalls of the last few years. This in turn arises from the fact that it is ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE for a non-Chinese entity to seek legal recourse against a Chinese factory that breaks a contract.
To some degree, this is going to remain the case in the future. There will always be cheap Chinese crap, no matter what sort of goods we’re talking about. However, these factories also pick up the knowledge and skill to DO IT RIGHT, and will do so for the right price. The trick is in being able to tell the difference. In the case of musical instruments, the only way to do this is to have them played and likely adjusted by people who actually know how to play them, and how they should behave. This is one of the shortcomings in the Aquilasax C-mel production — sure Steve went over there a LOT, and play-tested a lot of them personally, but I have come to the conclusion that he’s just not a good enough player to distinguish a mediocre horn from a good one. The one I bought was one he personally tested, and it was also one which (had I been the play-tester) I would have rejected. Then again, it had several design flaws that shouldn’t have made it into production in the first place.
It’s a double-edged sword. These factories are willing to make mediocre or worse instruments for cash, but they’re also willing to take on contracts (like C-mels and C-sops) that nobody else will touch.
Helen, add to your comments a demise in the professional music industry, slowly but surely, over the past 30 to 40 years. Forty years ago I was working permanently 3 – 4 nights a week and could afford quality horns. I’ve still got them. The repair/rebuild industry was there, but not as prominent as it is today. Pro’s traded their horns for new ones or sold on to students and young players. Today we tend to hang on to our fine vintage horns and are happy to pay for a total rebuild knowing the quality of the horn makes it worthwhile. I recently had my Mark 6 baritone rebuilt. It’s action is quieter than ever and will see me out!
The entry-level market may become over-run with cheap Chinese horns but I can recall some horrible European saxes in the 50’s! The number of quality secondhand saxes plus the international nature of the marketplace all contribute to a demise in high-end sales and therefore manufacture.