Photo by M. Margison © 2008
The other night while playing at the Gourmet Gallery, I had a interesting experience, that for a sax player, doesn’t happen very often. Guitar players, bass players & drummers, are forever approaching the guys in the band, and talking to them about their gear. The conversations usually go something like this… Is that a Gibson ’65? blah, blah, blah… Art says: No it’s a ’62 yada, yada, yada… (Or something like that. I’ve probably got the numbers wrong.)
My eyes glaze over, and I continue thinking about my shopping list, the to-do list for next week, or whatever else was going through my mind just before that person started talking to Art.
But on Friday night, a fellow said to me: You play a Selmer. I said, Yes, a Mark VI. It turns out he used to play tenor sax, and had previously owned a Super 20, but gave it up for a Yamaha 61. He said that the 61 felt the best under his fingers, of all the horns he had ever played. However he gave up playing sax a few years ago. Recently he did start playing music again, and took up flute.
Photo by Biff Mitchell © 2004
I didn’t have a lot of time to talk to him, because it was just before sound check, but it was interesting talking to him about vintage versus modern horns, ergonomics, sound, metal composition, and what I had done with my Mark VI to change its sound somewhat, for the type of music I play. He was interested in talking more with me. It seemed that he was also interested in getting back into saxophone.
I gave him my business card, and asked him to drop me an email. I hope he does that. He seemed like a nice guy, and I am always willing to offer up my experience to nice people when they ask. Lots of sax players have done that for me over the years. I think it’s a way we all pay it forward.
Ouch. Sorry to hear about your cracked wisdom tooth. Do you think your IQ will drop once it’s out? 😉 Mine went down exponentially when I had all of mine removed while in high school. My grades plummeted, and I ended up in the modified math and science classes. 😆
Oh ya, you still have my duck caller don’t you. I had almost forgotten. I have checked with 3 guys I know who all work on mouthpieces, and none of them will work on stainless steel. Pity. Oh well… I guess it’s a door stop. At least I know it’s not me. I’ll send you and email, and we’ll work out the details.
As far as the interior chamber and facing of the new D7 is concerned, I’m not sure which facilitates its altissimo abilities. I haven’t really spent any time comparing my vintage Dukoffs and this new D7 side by side. I should really.
I love the new D7, but still stick with my S7 in my work with Deception. Art, the guitar player, and Deception’s leader, prefers the sound of the D7. He likes the edge it has, and its ability to climb into the stratosphere. Because I mimic the guitar, and Art and I play off each other, the D7 gives me an even greater ability to sound like a guitar… No wonder he likes it.
I tease him all the time… I tell him, I’m the only sax player that he will find who plays like a guitar player, and can sound like either instrument… And I do it without effects pedals. Now if I could just play rhythm guitar on my sax, he’d be the happiest guy. Right now I play the lead part for obvious reasons.
I’m using Dukoffs D chambers for soprano, alto and baritone. I was on a Dukoff D7 or Dukoff X7 on tenor before I bought I bought a Rovner Deep-V D40. You can use baritone reeds on a Rovner tenor mpc. John Laughter told me about this. So a Rovner Deep-V D40 with Rico Plasticcovers #4 or #5 is the right thing for me. But I still have my Dukoffs!!
Does the deep V do anything for you, other than making the chamber just a little bit bigger? I have a Jody Jazz DV NY (alto), and it seems to me all the deep V does is allow the mouthpiece to be made smaller on the outside since it doesn’t have to be opened up so much on the inside. The material missing from the window has the effect of enlarging the chamber. I know the claim is that the long window allows “more of the reed to vibrate”, but it seems to me that most of the reed covering the enlarged opening is about as thick as a plank and not very prone to vibration, even if it was free to do so (which it isn’t, it’s held by the ligature).
I’m also one of those who does not care for Rovner ligatures, and I decided to test some others for the DV NY even though it CAME with a Rovner. The best was a Francois Louis soprano ligature, and that is what the previous owner used on it. He didn’t want to part with it though, and I don’t blame him as it works quite well on his soprano as well. It turns out the ligature I homebrewed for my stubby Dukoff tenor piece fits the DV NY very nicely. It’s even the right taper. This has a little more projection than even the FL did, and the DV NY is fairly dark and can use the help.
In any case, I don’t know that the deep V changes the sound any more than removing the same amount of material in the traditional way (from the chamber walls) would. Despite being designed to take a Rovner, or at least shipping with one, I find it still works better with a metal ligature. I would be interested in hearing your experiences though.
I think the Rovner Deep-V D40 is a very loud and powerful mouthpice. A real “guitarkiller”!!!! A Martin tenor + Rovner + plasticcver reeds = you just need one saxplayer in the band! Playes low tones and barlines outstanding and sounds like a whole saxsection:…. . The mouthpiece is just the right mpc gor me.
Thomas
Of course you still have your Dukoffs.
Because you never know when you’ll need more than 1 mouthpiece for the same horn. 😆 Well at least that’s what I say, when someone asks me why I have 5 tenor Dukoffs. 😉 Seriously though, only 2 of them are the same, the others are different, and all produce different sounds.
4 of my Dukoffs are vintage. They are:
> D7 with a rather chubby body I don’t know how old they are, but I have 2 identical ones.
> D7*
> S7
1 Dukoff is new, I just got it a few months ago:
> D7 it is completely different from the vintage D7 and the D7* in its exterior shape, response, and tone. It is harder to control than the older Dukoffs.
The S7 is my main piece. I don’t know when Dukoff stopped making the S series, but it IIRC, it was the loudest, most projecting mouthpiece that Dukoff made. It is edgier than my vintage D, and is a bit more user friendly than the newer D.
I have to agree with your assessment that the new D7 is not the most user-friendly mouthpiece ever (though it’s not bad, I could have gotten used to it). My choice of bright tenor piece was between that Dukoff and a Saxscape Downtown Studio. I found the Saxscape to be friendlier, a bit rounder with only a minor sacrifice in projection, and more user-friendly. It is also made of Delrin, which I have already found to be sturdier than silverite even though it is plastic. I have inadvertently clipped it on the edge of a music stand, an act that would have left a ding on a Dukoff, and it sustained no damage whatsoever — not even a scratch.
I think if the Dukoff had a little bit larger chamber (and possibly a shorter baffle), it would have sounded more like the Saxscape, and I might have kept it.
I’m now very used to the Dukoff. Ray was right about the subtones coming with the practice. The lushness is there as one gets more used to the piece. They are just so different from the vintage Dukoffs, that for a player who has played the old style Dukoffs for years, it takes a bit of getting used to. I wonder how long it would take someone who has never played Dukoff to get control of it?
The new D7s are more a hybrid piece I feel. They’re definitely no longer the old school D7, and not even an old school S7. They are a new piece altogether, that need to be approached with a whole different way of thinking. These are not your father’s Dukoffs. 😉
Oh, I should mention… The altissimo just pops with the new D7. Not that Dukoffs ever had a problem hitting the notes to begin with, but these new pieces hit them easier, and go much higher with far less effort. As a matter of fact, I still find myself occasionally higher than I mean to be, and having to do a graceful glissando down to the right note.
Do you think the increased facility in altissimo is due to a facing change or a chamber change? I have never played a vintage S7, and my stubby D9 was hacked before I ever got it.
I got your bari Berg playing, but it still sounds like a wounded duck from time to time and jumps octaves easily. I can leave the tape on the table when I return it; it’s no big deal to peel it off, and you might get a better feel for its potential when you can SORT OF play it. Just let me know when and where.
I hacked my bari Brilhart Level-Aire, but not heavily. I flattened the table and opened it from .097″ to .103″, and rolled the resulting thick tip into a slight rollover prior to the step baffles (it has two different baffle angles, it’s a very odd piece). It’s stainless, and I just don’t have the patience to do major changes on stainless. It took me about six months to build up the courage to take this one on, but I wanted to do it while I could still test it. It gives me something to come back to, and I need to get some harder reeds for it.
After today I won’t be playing it for a week at least, as I cracked a wisdom tooth on July 3 (or just noticed it on July 3) and it’s coming out tomorrow. Playing bari today hurt less than playing alto a couple days ago, so either the antibiotics are helping, or bari isn’t as painful, or some combination of both.
Hey, I was wondering. What kind of mouthpiece is the player in the pictures using? I’ve seen one other person use the same kind, and I’m very curious about it, since I play tenor saxophone at my high school.
^,^ I’d love to hear back!
Hi McKayla. Welcome to my website.
I’m the sax player in both of the photos. The mouthpiece that I’m using is what I use as my main piece, and is what produces my sound. It is a Dukoff mouthpiece. Dukoff mouthpieces are made in Florida by Bobby Dukoff’s company.
Dukoff mouthpieces are very loud, and are generally used by players who need to project, and often those who play in electric environments. Rock players tend to like them a lot.
Dukoffs are quite difficult to play, and you need to have a really good embouchure to control them well. They are professional level mouthpieces. Oh, and band teachers will not welcome them in band. They would be too much for even jazz band.
What bands do you play in in your school? What kind of mouthpiece are you using now? What kind of reeds do you use?
Talk to me a bit. Maybe I can give you some ideas about what might work for you..helen
What you say is true of the D chamber, not so much of the LD chamber (the darkest Dukoff I believe). I have a tenor “stubby” that has had the whole step baffle removed and now has a fairly gentle rollover, and it’s not a bright piece at all. It’s brighter than a Link STM to be sure, but it’s darker than either my Saxscape Downtown Studio (even though it too has a shortened step baffle) or the Drake Contemporary. I don’t think I’d have any trouble blending in a band with the Contemporary, and I’m even more certain I could get away with playing the Dukoff.
I was thinking of selling the Yamaha tenor, and the person testing it really liked the Dukoff stubby. However, I could not in good conscience sell a mouthpiece that is this severely hacked and has a homebrewed (but highly effective) ligature. After a little research, I recommended the LD as the nearest new, off-the-shelf match to my stubby.
McKayla: If you are really in the market for a metal mouthpiece at this point, you would probably be best off going with an Otto Link Super Tone Master. They’re not bright (it’s not the material that matters, it’s the shape and size of the inside), are quite common, and are a lot more durable than Dukoffs. There are some Dukoffs made of brass, but all the ones made now and most of the ones made in the past are made of “silverite” which is about 97% tin and very, very soft (and easily damaged). If you just want something loud and aggressive (for marching band, for example), get a cheap (under $30) Rico Metalite, like an M5 or M7. Despite the name, they are not metal, just gray plastic. For something a bit less aggressive but still pretty bright, consider a Rousseau JDX or Studio Jazz at around $60.