Sometimes I write about horns that are listed on eBay because they are an excellent deal. Other times I write about them only because they are an oddity. Today’s eBay’s offering is definitely an example of the latter.
Source: phils-historic-instruments
This quirky alto—with a non-detachable neck—was made by the Universal company in Paris, France, and carries the model name Savana.
I have tried to do some research into the brand, but have come up with next to nothing. This reference in the Clarinet Makers section of woodwind.org, is the most authoritative, and confirms that this is not a stencil sax.
Here is how the seller describes this vintage saxophone:
Here we have a lovely silver plated saxophone manufactured in Paris by Savana. This Universal Brevete 480 model has a serial number ‘2481840’ (very feint)
This instrument is slightly unusual in design because it is in one complete instrument, ie the crook is not detachable
Condition appears very reasonable, but it requires a total re-pad and service as some springs are not tight. It has its original mouthpiece & ligature and also a case.
Saxophones are not my strongest in terms of knowledge would be please to try to answer any questions you may have.
Source: phils-historic-instruments
As the photos show, the sax only plays down to B, but does go up to high F. This was quite a common range for vintage French saxophones of the time.
Another characteristic of French saxophones of the time, was that they lacked pearls and rollers. This horn too shares this common French trait.
Also, as you can see in the photo of the right side, the sax appears to have 2 octaves keys rather than 1 automatic one. (You can barely make out a white pad midway up the visible octave lever.)
From the research that I have done, I believe that 480 is actually the serial number. I’m not sure what 2481840 is however, since it doesn’t appear to be a patent number—at least according to any patent searches that I have done.
In the research that I have done, I came across other Universal Savana saxophones that had similar 6-digit numbers. Only the “1” in this horn’s number is an extra, and doesn’t fit with the rest of the examples that have been mentioned. Furthermore, in September, 2009, a reader of my website contacted me and asked about a Savana soprano that she had the opportunity to buy. It too had the same number (248-840) stamped on it.
At the time I contacted saxophone historian Pete Hales to see if he knew anything about the history of Universal Savana saxophones. He replied that he had seen soprano and alto Universal saxophones in the past, but didn’t know anything about the brand other than it was very old. He believed that the company ceased production by the end of WWI. He also believed that the soprano was likely a high pitch horn. (I had sent him lots of photos.)
As I researched the brand again this morning, this high pitch theory is something that others have mentioned as well. It is therefore worth noting that the alto currently on eBay might very well be a high pitch sax.
The auction for this rather interesting enigma of a saxophone runs until September 21. The Buy It Now price is £345.00, which eBay estimates to be approximately $571.73 US. At the time of writing there were no offers yet on this, what is most likely an antique saxophone.
Look here: http://luthiervents.blogspot.com/search?q=Universel
I bought one of these on eBay about 4 months ago. You’re right: it’s hard to find any info about this. I do believe it is a DuBois “redesign” of the original. Feel free to ask me questions about it.
Hi Scott. Thanks for reaching out to me.
I would really appreciate some decent photos of your horn. I am definitely short on pics of this brand—and the ones I have are not very good. The photo you posted is extremely nice.
The sax that you bought looks to be in very good condition. Even its case looks original. Once I see some pics I’m sure I’ll have a number of questions.
Thank you for your comment. I’m looking forward to seeing some nice, large photos of Savana so I can make out some details…helen
I have a silver plated Paris Savana Alto sax with a detachable crook. It was made before the Universel as it does not have the name engraved on the bell. I had a local expert who repairs sax and clarinets try to value it, but he had never seen one as old as this one. Estimated manufactured in the late 1800’s and still plays, all original pads save the small top one. I am looking for a specialty auction house to sell it for me, any suggestions as to where would be appreciated. Shaun
First, alto saxophones with “tenor style” necks are pretty uncommon. I’d love to see more pics!
Second, I’d want to confirm the intonation standard of the horn. Low pitch, A=440hz, is the modern standard. High pitch, A=457hz, was extremely common up until — and, in a few isolated cases, after — WWII. Unless the horn is stamped “LP” or some other variation of “Low Pitch,” the only way you can tell is with an electronic tuner and you have to test over most of the horn. If it’s high pitch, that’s going to shoot down a lot of value very quickly: the horn’s considerably out of tune with modern instruments and really can’t be made to play in tune with them.
Third, I’m not quite sure on the value. As I mentioned above, that style neck on an alto is uncommon, but I don’t know if that translates into high value. I somewhat doubt it, but I’d be interested in hearing what you can get for it.
Hi Helen,
Two horns with a Dubois design for sale, a Universele Rex and a Pax.
Both with the number code 248-840.
http://www.ebay.de/itm/252423719663?_trksid=p2060353.m1431.l2648&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Tolles-sehr-altes-franzosisches-Saxophon-Alt-in-Eb-/182183881508?hash=item2a6b016b24:g:ehEAAOSwM4xXbpZO
And here a Universel Savana
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Saxophon-Altsaxophon-mit-Koffer-Krokopragung-/122192953206?hash=item1c73447f76%3Ag%3A-JQAAOSw44BYCjcj
Casting Threadus Resurrectus on this …
You could say that all the Universel horns stamped “Raymond Dubois” and/or “Brevete 248.840” are made by Raymond Dubois. For a larger view …
* The Couturier company was founded in 1812 by Jacques Couturier in Lyon.
* In 1836, partnered with DuBois as Maison DuBois & Couturier.
* In 1875, Pelisson freres & Cie purchased Dubois and Couturier.
* In 1905, the company was renamed Pelisson, Guinot & Blanchon
* In 1931, Gaillard, Martel & Loiselet; Lyon-Paris succeeded Pelisson
* In 1935, Gaillard & Loiselet succeeded Gaillard, Martel & Loiselet; Lyon-Paris
From Horn-U-Copia. You can also check out http://thesax.info/makesandmodelslist/2014/03/10/saga-pelisson-curved-baritone. That’s an article I wrote regarding the Pelisson Georgeophone. I got a lot of information from http://luthiervents.blogspot.com.
The 248840 patent (Brevete) is way too old to look up online. The earliest French patents I could find are in the 319,000 range. That’s 1902. I would then assume that the 248840 patent is probably the 1867 patent I mention on my website in the above link.
You can also check out http://luthiervents.blogspot.com/search/label/Unic%20Simplex for a bit more, but it’s in French.
:beat: Nothing wrong with playing the resurectophone. :beat:
There is also the British patent from 1928: http://www.directorypatent.com/GB/299654-a.html
From Raymond Dubois, now with the Rose Morris & compagny ltd.
Hi there,
I’ve got a Savana alto sax which I bought in London in the 1980s. “Savana” with “Paris” underneath is engraved longitudinally along the bell. There are no other engravings, numbers, words etc on it. I learned on it and it plays well – with the normal range from Bb to F. It has pearls and rollers on it, though the tone holes have been soldered on, and normal detachable crook. It is a standard low pitch. I found your site because I was looking for information about Savana. Here are a couple of photos.
Hi Andy. Welcome to my site.
I’m only seeing one photo of your Savana alto. Did you mean to attach more?
These horns remain a bit of a mystery it seems. Based on your description, I’m wondering if yours isn’t a later model—at least compared to some of horns we’ve seen around. I also don’t recall seeing a lacquered horn before. IIRC, the previous Savana saxophones I’ve seen before have all been silver plated.
Here is another saxophone made by Dubois, named Essor.
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Altes-Saxophon-Alt-Saxophon-Franzosisches-Saxophon-von-Raymond-Dubois-Essor-/151487371918?pt=Antike_Musikinstrumente&hash=item234559da8e
I like the decorations around the tenon area.
Today I retrieved from the loft my first sax given to me by my uncle 1960’ish – it is a Universal Savana serial number 161 – it needs new springs & pads etc. but I’m inspired to give it a refurb & see if I still have the puff to play it 30 years or more since it was last played.
Hi Ken. Welcome to my site.
These horns are a bit of a mystery actually. (At least they are here in North America.) I have read some quite contradictory information about them.
I have read everything from the are crap, to they are decent, to they are great. Since I have never had the opportunity to try one first hand, I don’t know what to believe. I do know though, that they are an old-style horn, with quite likely an old-style sound—at least compared to what we are used to hearing today.
Another Savana for sale. The name is misspelled as Lavana.
It does not have the reduced key set of the Universal. It looks more like a Maurice Dubois saxophone than a Boiste type.
http://www.ebay.de/itm/390838360988?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1426.l2649
Thanks for that link Theo. I’ve never seen a Savana that was as advanced-looking as this one is. Interesting. It makes me think that they built saxophones longer than is commonly thought here in North America.
And now a Savana soprano from the circus with a reduced set of keys.
Up to high Eflat and without Fsharp and C thrill keys.
http://www.ebay.de/itm/365-Universel-Savana-Paris-Sopran-Saxophon-guterhaltenes-Saxofon-im-Koffer-/371067978526?pt=Blasinstrumente&hash=item566560031e
Clowns and soprano saxophones, a natural combination.
Hi Helen,
Just a trace of information on Savana.
On the French site of Luther Vents, Raymond Maurice Dubois is linked to
brevet FR 646633 (A), type Universel Savana.
He was once owner of Loreé in the time they made there version of the saxoboe.
Interesting. I’m still curious if these Savana saxophones were any good.
I think they could be a surprise. Dubois (or Du Bois?) seems to have worked with Maurice Boiste. It is possible that Dubois is in some places misspelled as Sibois (or the other way around).
extra info:
The French patents are difficult to find, but there is also a British one:
Improvements in and relating to saxophones.
Rose Morris & Company, Raymond Dubois
1928: GB299654-A
This company is owner of the Savana brand.
The patent is on the straight shape of the saxophone bell, which is easier to make.
Maurice Boiste worked for Raymond Dubois from 1926 to 1930 (source Luther Vents).
After this period Boiste specialized in metal instruments and Dubois in wooden instruments.
Thank you for this Theo. This gives me something to work with.
At the moment I am restoring a Universel Paris brevette 248-840 tenor saxophone with serial number 33xx. It is a basic saxophone with a high build quality .
Excellent solder work and well designed keys. It requires thin (3mm) pads but was equiped with thick 4,2 mm pads so I cant say much on the sound quality.
I will send some pictures when it is ready.
Hi Helen,
Savana is also mentioned in the New Langwill index.
A book with all known makers of woodwinds written by a Scottish accountant for a hobby.
First edition is from 1949.
When in a large library I will check it on more Savana information.
8) 8) 8)
Hi,
I have a silver coloured Universel Savana alto Sax which also bears the serial number 248-840 on it. Iv had it for about 18 years, and bought it from a very old man who wanted it to go to ” a good home” – He wanted £150 for it, but said more that he wanted someone to play it. – He included some music with it, including the “dashing white sergeant” and the first thing I thought of when I saw it was “he knew how to play if he played that” – I got it insured, but the valuer insisted it be covered for £900. It still is in great condition and the action is really smooth. My plans are to give it to my son when he has a bit more playing experience. It is a superb sax.
Hello Colin. Welcome to my site.
Thank you so much for dropping in and saying something positive about the Universal Savana. Until now I have only heard negative things about these instruments, but those comments have come from players who have not played one.
Would it be possible for you to send me some photos of your saxophone? I am curious to see what it looks like, and if it looks like the few other Savana horns I have managed to gather photos of.
Sadly, there seems to be no information about the company. Even the most basic info is not available. For example, I’m unclear if the horns were made by Universal and their model name is Savana, or if there is some other combination of the names that applies to these horns. Without the name, it becomes almost impossible to figure out when these horns might have been made, and for how long.
Update: Well this quirky horn did sell, but for less than the Buy It Now price. By auction’s end there was 1 bid of £225.00—which eBay estimates to be $350.51 US—and that was enough give this baby a new home.