In Part I of this story, I outlined my frustration of eBay’s handling of a seller who was repeatedly listing bass saxophones that he did not have in his possession. Despite repeated fraud reports by multiple eBay members, the same fake listing reappeared on the auction site time and time again.
On December 30, I received an email from a man in Sao Paulo, Brazil. To protect his privacy, I’ll call him John. John had long had a dream to be a bass sax owner—specifically he desired to own an Jinbao-made IW 661.
To properly put this into context, you have to understand that English is not John’s first language. He relies on a translation program to correspond with people. John had also never purchased an item through eBay before, and didn’t realize that fraud was a possibility.
John had seen these ads by goodmanner010 for months, and had become tempted by the low prices. According to John, many of the players in Brazil are amateur players, and have very little first hand knowledge about bass saxophones.
When John contacted the seller (goodmanner010), he was assured that the saxophone was being sent directly from the factory, and that was why the price was significantly lower. goodmanner010 also said that he was IW’s representative in China.
A deal was struck through eBay, and John paid goodmanner010 a deposit of $1,200 through PayPal. John was sent a tracking number, and when his bass sax arrived, he was to send the remainder of the money.
For 7 days John tracked the package that was supposed to contain his bass sax. When it arrived, he drove 500 miles to pick it up. Inside the box he found a lovely set of cheap earrings, but no bass sax.
John immediately notified eBay and PayPal. eBay terminated goodmanner010’s—and alternate persona pickapricot’s—account. John is now awaiting the outcome of the PayPal investigation. They have given goodmanner010 up to 10 days to respond to their inquiry.
This is how John describes his feelings about what happened to him:
the worst part is not so much $ $ $ lost, the worst part is feeling like a fool for having believed this thief!
John is a very positive person though, and looks at what has happened to him in a positive light.
Because of what has happened he has been in contact with Laksar Reese from International Woodwind. John will be purchasing his dream IW-661 directly through Reese, and knows that he will really be getting a horn when that big package arrives.
John also pointed to a Brazilian saying that loosely translated means, from some evil comes good. John’s connection with Laksar is one example of this good, and he points to my telling of his story as another.
Through John’s and my connection, his hope is that others will find out how convincing some of these con artists can be. This is especially true if one or both parties are corresponding in a language other than their main one. Through false representation of who they are, and selling the buyer basically an empty box, con artists like this lay in wait on eBay looking for their next mark.
Before you say this won’t or can’t happen to you, think about this for a minute: If a buyer lived overseas, and supposedly had a sax that you really coveted, for what seemed like a really good price, but didn’t write in English, would you use a translation program to correspond with them? If they were convincing enough, would you not perhaps be tempted to take a chance and purchase the horn?
Sure we can all armchair quarterback and say, “Yeah, but there were enough other warning flags in these auctions coming from China”, you have to remember that not everybody, in every country, has access to the the same information that we do. The victim here did nothing wrong. The only one who did something wrong is the seller, who has been removed from eBay now. This person committed a fraudulent act by taking money, and not sending the item that they took the money for.
The big losers here are the people who use eBay and PayPal. PayPal will hopefully be paying John out, and although I’m not sure exactly how this works, I’m pretty sure that they would be going after eBay for some of it back. In the end, this type of fraud filters down to everyday users of these services, since they will pay for fraud lose payouts through an increase in user fees.
It sucks doesn’t it? So the next time you see a fraudulent listing on eBay, take the time and report it. Maybe if eBay gets inundated with 15 or more reports about a possible fraudulent listing, they’ll act on it sooner—or be likely to act on it at all.
Oh, and BTW, what’s this? Another fake bass saxophone listing? Check out this guy’s other supposed listings. I wonder if the seller formerly known as goodmanner010 is back in business already?
I reported this auction 2 days ago and it’s still running. John reported it as well. If you’re an eBay member, please do so too.
Helen, thanks for your kind words!
I can tell for you that it happens yes because I was ashamed at first.
but as always tell my wife “My courage always wins of my shame!” then soon decided to send him a message … so for e-bay, paypal and Reese Laksar!
look,the other day I gave a new bid in that false ad, so it was removed!
think the fraudster saw it was me and pulled the ad.
but unfortunately he put ad again: (
already reported to ebay again but to no avail!
paypal tell me that the refund would be done with your’s money but they would withdraw the amount on account of “seller”…
what matters is what gave me back my money!
you can be assured that once lay hands on my IW661 you will be the first to receive the pictures!
Thank you Helen!
Michael
I have two great news for you all:
1-I just got a message from paypal Saying THEY DID refund my money in credit card! /
2-yesterday closed the purchase of my IW661 with Laksar Reese./
Reese will ship next week for my sister who lives in Boston …
My sister is going to come on holiday to the Brazil and I will get my IW.
I’ll just have to wait until July to get their hands on it: (
Now we see that paypal is a serious business!
is a shame that the e-bay has done nothing with that “seller”: (
I reported back to e-bay but the fraudulent ads bass sax still there: (
so, that’s it …
Michael
This is great news John! I really happy for you!
I’m very pleased to see how fast PayPal responded to your complaint, and how prompt they were with your repayment. This should give others in your situation cause for hope.
I think your situation is not at all unique, and I suspect more people are ripped off than we know. I think most people are not willing to come forward and let others know what happened to them however. I think people might be embarrassed that they were taken by a swindler.
Thank you John, for being brave and coming forward and telling your story. I think this is a very valuable lesson for all of us.
While most of the sellers on eBay are very honest people, there are a number of others who are more than happy to take your money, and not send you what you paid for. These fraudsters thumb their noses at honest people, and companies like eBay and PayPal. And for their part, eBay seems unwilling, or unable to do anything about them—even when suspicious auctions by suspicious sellers are reported multiple times.
I’m very happy that this summer you’ll be receiving the IW-661 that you’ve been wanting. When you do receive it John, I am really looking forward to you sending me some photos, and your thoughts about your new instrument.
Be well, and send me an email from time to time and let me know how you are doing.
Take care my friend…helen
hello,
Look, today is January 10, today was the last time for the “seller” respond to messages sent through paypal.
the “seller ” not proved.
I contacted paypal makes few minutes, let’s hope they will tell me about this case!
I hope the paypal return my money!
so, I say when I have news!
hello,
so when I tried to buy my bass sax, was a shame I do not know about this blog. if I had read about this fraudster would not have wasted my money!
this scammer takes advantage of our lack of information to deceive us!
would be great if everyone who wanted to do business given information that is found here!
I’m waiting for paypal to resolve the case, told me that until Jan. 10 would be solved.
the “seller” so far not answered any message that paypal sent to him, the deadline for responding it is day 10.
well, this story is sad but started having a happy ending!
Lakar Reese has called me, he touched the IW661 the phone for me to hear the sound is wonderful!
God will help me when I can buy it soon!
Reese has been a great person to me!
Helen,
continue with this blog, it is very important work you do!
tell my story on other sites so that other people are not cheated too!
so, I write here as soon as the paypal address something!
see …
Shame people come on ebay to scam other people…reported on my account as well.
I hope John gets his money back and I am waiting to hear how this works out Specifically any bumps along the way it may feel like your :bang: but hopefully there will be a check at the end of it all.Pay Pal and Ebay may be one and the same but they have made lots of promises all over both sites so we will see if they can keep their promises. You would think that Ebay would have a vested interest stopping fraudulent listings since Pay Pal will end up eating the difference on those listings. I look forward to what happens next.
GOOD LUCK 😯 😯
Mark
Hmmmm… I reported that seller today. You’d think the eBay folks would’ve figured it out already – there must be some way to automatically flag a listing for review if the item = bass saxophone and location = China, but this is just one bad egg in a sea of others.
(BTW, Helen, I’m a long-time lurker. Your site and blog are wonderful – thank you for all the hard work!) 🙂
Hi Glen.
Welcome to my site. Thank you for stepping out of shadows and joining us in the conversation. Thank you too for your kind words about my site. I do put a lot of time & effort into my site on almost a daily basis. What gives me the greatest payback is when something amazing happens because of some simple words that I have written.
Sometimes I manage to reconnect old friends who haven’t spoken in decades. Or sometimes I seem to inspire someone to pick up a horn that they haven’t played in years, and they then go on do something amazing with their musical gift. My site has shown me how interconnected we all are in some way, and how much we all share. This is perhaps the single-greatest motivator I have for what I do.
Thanks again for your comment Glen. Now that you’ve moved from the lurker to official visitor category, I hope you’ll pop in again sometime.
Regards,
Helen
eBay and Paypal are one and the same. Paypal will attempt to reverse the payment directly from the seller’s account, but if the seller has already cleared and closed the account (as I would think they would do, knowing full well they aren’t delivering the goods) then Paypal may well have to eat the charges. This also means they will drag their feet on returning the funds to the buyer, if they don’t manage to weasel out of it completely by some means.
The fact that the buyer ACCEPTED the package as sent is a bad thing for him — this alone would be enough for Paypal to deny his claim if he is claiming non-delivery. This is just one of the many dodges they may attempt to use to avoid or delay repayment. 😥
Well that’s really depressing news Mal-2. I hope John has no problems getting his $$ back. It seems like a slam dunk to me…He paid for a bass sax, but got cheap earrings. This = fraud. If this doesnt’ guarantee your money back, I can’t see what does.
I didn’t realize the eBay/PayPal connection was as close as you mentioned.
BTW, this con artist is back in business again under the new name of ivy3377. He’s using the same photos of vintage bass saxophones not in his possession in an effort to pull the scam again. Also, he’s got new Asian horn listings too. And yes, I’ve reported the listings… All to no effect. It really is a joke. 😡
It appears eBay has made the connection between goodmanner010 and ivy3377. ivy3377—who was using the same 3 photos that goodmanner010 did to try and fraudulently sell bass saxophones that he also did not have in his possession—is also no longer an eBay member. Alright!!
Chalk one up for the good guys.
How long do you think it will be before this scoundrel appears under a different name?
If you or “John” need any help with the Chinese, feel free to contact me. I live in Beijing which is where this parcel was sent from.
Hello Luc,
I thank you for offering to help me but,let’s wait for paypal to resolve this case OK!
Thank you!