Yesterday, I took my JK-stencilled, 1957 Jubilee tenor (which is actually a Series III Toneking), and a brand new angel wing and clothes guard, as well as its matching 1957 alto cousin, and its new angel wing and clothes guard, to my tech, David Gsponer. David owns Matterhorn Music, and he has proven to be the single greatest asset I can have as a vintage sax player.
After much checking around when I first moved back to BC in 2004, I picked David as my tech to work exclusively on my collection of vintage babies. David is trained as a wind instrument maker in Switzerland. David has a remarkable ability to diagnose and figure out how to fix the quirky things that can go wrong with vintage horns. He can create really good workarounds, if necessary, that look as good as the original, and look like they’ve always been there.
Yesterday, David was minorly challenged, as he tried to install the new metal angel wing and clothes guard that I received from the late Gerhard Keilwerth’s shop in Germany. Considering that Gerhard Keilwerth’s shop uses these parts in the restoration of The New King and Toneking horns regularly, you would think that these parts would fit, right? Wrong.
The clothes guard came with pre-drilled holes that did not quite line up with the posts in the sax’s body tube. David had to come up with a creative way to build up the post, because I didn’t want to have the post unsoldered, and then resoldered again. In the end, it looks really good, and you can’t tell that things weren’t quite right.
When it came to the angel wing, that was a bit tricky as well because there were no pre-drilled holes at all. David first checked some photos of Gerhard Keilwerth-restored Toneking saxophones, to see exactly where the 4 fastening screws were placed.
After determining exactly how the angel wing should be placed, he carefully went about drilling the holes. After attaching the wing, he found that the tip of the wing closest to the bell, was actually in contact with the bell. David had to bend the wing up slightly to prevent metal to metal contact. As you can see below, there is now just enough room to avoid contact, yet the original flow of the wing hasn’t been disturbed.
There were also problems at the other end of the angel wing. The part of the guard that covered the low C key, actually put pressure on the key to the point where it was closed. David had to modify the very end of the wing to allow the low C key mechanism to operate freely.
Before David’s mod, the angel wing did not have this curved cut in it (seen in the image below).
Finally, now my Toneking is fully restored. Yesterday I took the after photos of what it looks like. It is quite a remarkable change for this classic horn, which turned 55 this year.
The right side looks very different now with the metal angel wing, compared to the Plexiglas wing the previous owner made.
The quirky leather strap for the left thumb has been replaced with a mother of pearl thumb rest.
The hook attached on the strap ring to aid in switching horns (without having to adjust the neck strap), has been removed.
When David restored the sax, he had to expand the tenon because the neck was too loose in the socket. The classic, JK neck fastening screw, which is attached to the neck, was in the way, so David had to remove it.
I can’t see how it looks much different now than it did before. Yes, there was a bit of lacquer loss in the process, but it’s hardly significant. The neck fits perfectly now.
If you’d like see the rest of the after photos, they are now posted on the Bassic Sax website.
As far as the alto goes, after David and I discussed options, I decided to have a full restoration done. The horn is in amazing condition, and it deserves to be restored properly. Given the job on this tenor, I know the alto will be just as amazing when I get it back in the fall.
Got it for 175$ and it plays
Hi, I’m in France , I have recently got au new king alto and the angel wings are broken. I have lokked everywhere but impossible to find a metal one to buy. I certainly will do it in metal string.
If you can give me the adress of t instrument site of Keilwerth in Nauheim.
For my vintage saxophone alto I use a Otto Link STM 6, and the result is not bad.
Thank you
Hi bruno.
The shop in Nauheim belonged to Gerhard Keilwerth (Julius’ grandson). Gerhard died just over a year ago, but last I heard, his family was still running it.
I don’t know what is happening at the shop now however, because a friend here in Vancouver recently sent them 2 emails about an angel wing and a clothes guard, and never got replies to either email. The emails were sent about 2 months apart. As you can see from the link about, the website for the shop is still up, and nothing indicates that the business is closed.
A fellow from Vienna, who also had a Toneking with a damaged Lucite angel wing, told me that he had ordered his replacement clothes guard and angel wing from the JK company directly in Germany. But that was a couple of years ago, when JK was owned by Buffet already, but before Buffet got sold to whoever owns them now. So you might consider contacting the Keilwerth company in Germany (probably you’d have to do so through Buffet) and seeing if you can buy the part directly from them.
Please let me know if you get a reply from Gerhard’s shop. I am curious to know what is going on there. I now know of enough people looking for replacements, that I would like do some research, and see if I can’t find out some concrete information for people.
Has anyone ever considered making a set out of Lexan? :scratch: It is the plastic they use to make the front of vending machines and many other things that have to survive a lot of abuse. It wouldn’t be hard to make a set If I had a reasonably intact set to use as a pattern . 😀 Just my :2cents: If any body is interested.
Interesting. It certainly would be quite durable.
The original angel wings had sculptured edges and where obviously heated in the manufacturing process. I can’t think of another way that they would have been shaped the way they were. The Plexiglas replacement wing that my tenor came with, while being very nicely finished, was just flat, since it was created out of an existing sheet of Plexiglas.
I can’t remember where, and my search feature has been redone so it’s not searching comments at the moment—I think—but I seem to remember Mal2 talking about some other kind of plastic that could be molded. Truly, that’s what made these angel wings so beautiful. The patent drawing doesn’t really do it justice, since there were a number of rises and falls in the material. The flow of the guard is very artistic, and when it’s intact, it really is a thing of beauty.
Thin Lexan will soften and bend with a heat gun. You can use just about anything heat-resistant as a form to curve it around — a drinking glass, a cooking pan, a casserole dish, whatever gives you the desired curve. Once you get your curve, you can lock it in place by dunking the whole thing in water. You can also cut it with tin snips or garden shears while it’s still hot, though you’ll end up with rather rough edges (so cut oversize and grind down). Overdo the curve just a little as it will tend to straighten itself out slightly as it cools.
I have had the best luck with .111″ thick Lexan, but your angel wings are probably made of something closer to .25″. You’ll have to be careful not to burn that and make it bubble, while trying to heat it all the way through.
Another option is 3D printing.
Saxophone mouthpieces can be printed so an angle wing must be possible.
see: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:14495
The next thing……
In a few years we could be playing on saxophones made of 3D printed parts.
Stay tuned, I’m sure it’s coming. If some :clown: can make a working gun, a saxophone is certainly not impossible. I just suspect that it won’t be as popular as something that you can kill people with, so a sax won’t be the very next thing someone will write the design code for, but eventually someone will. The only question I have, is what kind of horn will it be: Soprano? Alto? Tenor? Other?
Hi there, I have a New King alto sn 23224 which I think puts it about 1954, have had it completely overhauled and it plays very nicely (especially after some time/money spent finding a vintage Charles chedeville large chamber mouthpiece) – do you know how to get a replacement plastic “angel wing” ? I find people mentioning that it can be done/ someone is making exact replicas (apparently in several colours) but haven’t yet figured out how to make contact with this person.
Any thoughts on mouthpiece choices would also be appreciated – the cc1 is the best so far for intonation and has great tone but is quite hard work/ resistant/ doesn’t blow as easily as others I’ve tried.
Many thanks!
Jim
Hi Jim.
So you’re noticing the need for a large chamber mouthpiece as well? Glad to know it’s not just me. Since getting my 1957 Jubilee (Toneking stencil) back from its overhaul, I’m having a tricky time getting it to play in tune. I have used a Runyon Custom mouthpiece forever, but its chamber is not quite big enough I fear. I’ve been in touch with repair tech Matt Stohrer, who is a self-professed Keilwerth aficionado, and he suggested that I try a Berg Larsen piece with a 3 chamber. I haven’t gotten around to trying that yet however. That’s on my list of things to do in the coming month.
What I find interesting, is that I don’t have the same problem with the tenor Toneking I have. I use my Dukoff S7 on it with no problems. This need for a large chamber pieces appears to be unique to the alto. I wonder if the soprano and baritone have any special mouthpiece requirements? But I digress…
As far as the angel wing is concerned, I’ve heard rumours too that someone makes replica wings out of Lucite, or other plastic material. I don’t know who that person is though, or where they might be located.
The angel wings and clothes guards that I got—and are pictured here—are origianl J. Keilwerth parts. Since the company went through it’s last sale, I don’t know if they still sell them, but you could try to contact them to find out. I bought mine from the late Gerhard Keilwerth’s shop in Nauheim, Germany. Last I heard his wife Jutta, and his 2 adult children were planning on keeping the shop running. I just checked, and the website is still up. I believe that someone there can read and write in English, so you could always contact them. However, understand that these parts are metal, because JK didn’t replace the Lucite with more Lucuite. They replaced it with metal, since they understood that the plastic was just too brittle.
Hope this has helped.
Best to you.
Regards,
Helen
Thanks for your reply – I’m not completely certain it’s the optimal one (there are so many mouthpieces out there!) but the CC1 seems to be the one I keep coming back to from my current collection – it does something to the tone that is hard to describe with words (but is good) although it is a bit resistant/ doesn’t speak as easily as others; on tenor I play an otto link 7* and I have an idea that the cc1 is a similar style in the alto world which could make sense in terms of my preferences; I have also tried swapping the neck from my unrestored Amati kraslice alto and this makes a noticeable difference to tone/intonation – most recently I am wondering if the adjustment of the key heights is a big part of the problem; the overhaul I had was very thorough but didn’t seem to include replacing the various felts/ corks which are noticeably thinner than they would have been when new. Some experimenting with bits of paper inserted temporarily does seem to make a difference.
I have a similar horn 244xx , what is yours worth?