Yesterday I mentioned that Steve from Aquilasax appeared to be testing the waters to see if there was enough interest to bring in a shipment of Jinyin-made, American-style, bass saxophones. Apparently this isn’t the only bass project that the company is considering.
On another page of Aquilasax’s web store, you can see an image of an Adolphe Sax Bb bass, circa 1877, that is on display at the National Music Museum, at the The University of South Dakota, Vermillion.
It is on this page of the Aquilasax e-store, that a C-pitched bass saxophone is discussed. Steve writes:
This SOLO brand Bb Bass sax reminds me of my Conn 12 m Baritone, similar keywork only bigger. If you are interested in a C Bass sax then click on “Put me on the waiting list” and IF we get enough interested we’ll look into getting some made. We don’t want your money yet but will require a deposit to secure a sax should we go ahead. Shipping is extra!
The price that is listed is $6,120.00.
Let’s for a moment ignore the fact that the saxophone in the photo is wrongly identified as a SOLO brand. Would you want to order a bass sax in the key of C? I could potentially see some benefits to it.
It would allow you to read tuba or euphonium parts without transposing them—provided you could read bass clef. If you’re not good at, or don’t like transposing, it would allow you play in the same key as other concert tuned instruments like guitars, pianos, and the likes.
However, given the sound differential between C-pitched tenors and Bb tenors, there will be tonal differences between C basses and Bb basses as well. So the real question is: What will a C-pitched bass saxophone sound like?
Since we have no bass saxophones in the key of C out in the public realm (Oscar Adler models are reputed to be in the possession of Gebrüder Mönnig Oscar Adler & Co Holzblasinstrumentenbau GmbH¹), I would be curious to know what Steve would use as a model. In the past, I believe he drew on the Conn C melody for his inspiration.
There will no doubt be players who will like the idea of a C-pitched bass saxophone. If you are one of them, now’s the time to let the man know. Who knows, perhaps Steve will get enough interested players to move ahead on the project.
Talk to any bass saxophone player, and they’ll tell you the same thing: Bass saxophone players have to be adept at finding work for themselves. A bass player who happens to have a sax in the key of C, would be in the same boat.
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Thanks Mal, Pete, & Bob for your thoughts on this. I just have one thing to add as a consideration.
Benedikt Eppelsheim has been making the Tubax since 1998. In all those years, he has only made 1 Tubax in the key of C. There is simply no demand for them. Compare that to all the Eb and Bb Tubax that he has sold—and there are a lot—that makes me wonder if there really is a market for a C pitched bass saxophone. :scratch:
I think it would be easier to sell a C bass than a C contrabass or Tubax. As I found out personally, a Tubax is not really a substitute for a full-size contrabass. The cone angle is just too narrow to produce the expected breadth of saxophone sound. It’s a valid instrument in its own right, but it’s not a drop-in replacement for a contrabass sax.
A C bass would have no such issues. It would be able to hold its own with any other saxophones, unless deliberately designed not to. I did think of another place it might show up, and that’s as the fifth sax for 60’s/70’s Stan Kenton Orchestra charts. His section at the time usually used one alto, two tenors, a bari, and a bass. When they’d play older stuff from their repertoire, either the bari or bass would double on second alto. The main reason for using a bass was to nail pedal Bb in unison with the bass trombone and/or tuba. A C bass would be capable of covering the range, but most likely still nimble enough (especially if keyed to high G, something Steve should think about) to cover the OTHER end of the bari range as necessary. It wouldn’t even be necessary to rewrite the charts, as long as the person reading them could think in bass clef and do the usual transposition in reverse. (You know what I mean, how bari players can read trombone charts — well it works both ways.)
On the other hand, a bari extended to low G would probably be every bit as useful in this particular case, and there wouldn’t be much of a sound difference.
What I think would be great would be to build a low-G bari in the standard key of Eb but with a bigger loop, and the bow curve relocated so that the bell doesn’t come up quite so high — maybe to the same height as a typical low A instrument. You’d get the extended range, arguably improved handling (though it’s still going to weigh extra, can’t do much about that), and there would be no need to alter any charts. The palm keys’ tone holes would end up being on the upper bout or on the upward-facing part of the loop, but that’s how they are on bass saxes and it seems to work just fine.
Speaking as an arranger: Of the four notes that a Bb bass sax has that a low A bari does not (concert B, Bb, A, and Ab), I really miss B and Bb a lot. A and Ab, not so much. Also, for all but those stuck in the handwritten era, transposing a chart is fairly trivial, so it really makes little difference to me whether the part is covered by a low G bari or a C bass. When I do write for bass sax, I can and do use the A and Ab because they are there. That extra weight should be providing SOME benefit, might as well use it! But I could easily live with Bb being the lowest obtainable note… or maybe a low C bass could also have a low A to match the bottom of bassoon range? 😉
I would buy a C bass sax, absolutely. I know others who would as well.
If that’s the case, then please contact Benedikt Eppelsheim. He would be happy to make you a C-pitched Tubax.
As for Aquilasax, I do believe they are a thing of the past. Their webpage is gone, and their FB page last saw an update in 2018.
Let me ask you a serious question: How much would you be prepared to spend for a bass sax pitched in the key of C?
Come to think of it, the body tube of a C-Bass Sax would be identical in length to those Baris that are already extended to Low-G, so my suggestion to Steve from Aquilasax would be to source C-Bass Saxes from the same J’Elle Stainer workshop. It should be relatively easy for them to adjust the tone-hole placements etc to pitch them in C instead of Eb, so would then not need all that extra fingering. We already know how creative they are eg. their compact CONTRA-Bass Bb Saxes and soon-to-be-revealed 9′ non-compact version which Helen wrote and displayed pictures about earlier. Next project, they could change the tone hole positions of their Bb Bass body tubes and add the extra fingering to offer C-Bass Saxes with Low-G Extensions ! Alternatively, a fellow I know has toured through the (HUGE) Weril factory (also in Brazil) and knows how clever they are in making instruments on request. I applaud Steve (Aquilasax), but hopefully having learned from his halted-foray into Mezzo-Soprano territory, he will take the advice from COLLECTORS of weird Saxes:- Who WILL buy ? The same people who have ALREADY been able to afford $6k+ for weird and RARE items (but first, they have to EXIST) !
I’ve heard of a lot of basses pitched in C, even from A Sax himself. However, I don’t have confirmation. Hey, high pitch Bb instruments ….
I wouldn’t mind a bass in C. If you consider that a bari is generally playing parts that are for traditional “baritone” instruments, like trombone and bassoon. A true bass instrument below that makes a certain degree of sense. However, that’s what tubas are for.
I’d think I’d get more use out of a C bass than a Bb bass. Not that I’d buy one, tho 🙂
You are correct about the origins of the Aquilasax C Melody — it was modeled off a 1926 Conn for both bore and tone hole locations. I didn’t particularly like the sound of mine, but I thought I could tame it with an appropriate mouthpiece. I never did, but even if I had wanted to keep trying, the instrument had other flaws that made it not worthwhile to me.
The first, and possibly most obvious, role I can think of for a C bass would be traditional (Dixieland) jazz. This way you could play bass lines directly off a lead sheet, rather than having to transpose all the chord changes. Then again, it would seem you could use the same lead sheet as the trumpet, clarinet, and tenor sax, using a Bb bass sax.
Like its cousin, the C Melody, I would imagine it will sound intermediate between a baritone and a Bb bass. Which one it sounds closer to will probably depend on the mouthpiece used. With a bari mouthpiece, it will probably sound a lot like a bari extended to low G. With a bass mouthpiece, it will probably have a bit less body to the sound the way a C Melody+tenor piece (other than Conn/Aquilasax) sounds like a tenor with less body with an alto-like top register and altissimo. I don’t imagine most people will be buying bass saxes (C or otherwise) to play them up high and in altissimo all that much. OK, Hamiett Bluiett and James Carter might do such a thing, but they’re hardly “most people”.