Thanks to Theo for find this interesting horn on the German eBay site: a René Guénot bass saxophone.
Source: diemuetze007 on eBay.de
The neck design on this René Guénot bass saxophone
Now do you notice anything interesting about this vintage bass saxophone? It is styled like the American models of the day. I’m not sure exactly when vintage French bass saxophones became short wrap models, but this unlabelled Pierret of the Super Artiste era has the classic short, French wrap. As does this Super Balanced Action # 5033x, which would make it circa 1950.
Getting back to the René Guénot bass saxophone that is currently for sale in Germany, it is an interesting beastie. Its left pinkie cluster is similar to what we see in the Conn New Wonder Series I bass saxes, and light years ahead of what Buescher was putting out on its True Tone basses.
Source: diemuetze007 on eBay.de
Who the heck was René Guénot?
If you’ve not heard of the René Guénot company, you’re likely not alone. They were a French company that was sold to Albert Douchet in 1933, who continued to sell saxophones until 1950 under the name, René Guénot Albert Douchet & Co. Successors.1 According to Uwe Ladwig, it is unclear if the company continued to make saxophones after the sale to Douchet.2
Just an interesting aside about the Douchet company; Uwe noted that in an advertising pamphlet the company offered the following saxophones: Bb soprano, F-mezzo soprano, Eb alto, Bb tenor, Eb baritone, and Bb bass. Horns were also noted as being available in either low or high pitch.3
If you’re able to read French, or don’t mind getting your head around the weird translations of Google Translate, I highly recommend the René Guénot page on the luthiervents blog. It has some interesting information there, but I suspect the French is much better than the horribly translated English.
The engraving on this bass saxophone doesn’t give us much to go on. It provides no model name, and doesn’t mention the Douchet name. Was this René Guénot bass saxophone made prior to the company’s sale in 1933?
Source: diemuetze007 on eBay.de
Unfortunately the seller doesn’t provide us with any real insight into this vintage bass sax’s history. This is how he/she describes it:
biete:
ein Bass Saxophon Rene Guenot, Paris incl. Gig-Bag.
Das Bass Sax. ist gebraucht, aber absolut spielbereit! Es hat einen sehr satten Sound und stimmt auf 440 H. Ich habe es mit einem Meyer Mundstück, 10´er Bahn gespielt.
Baujahr ca. 1900
Bauweise: wie Conn.
von tief Bb bis hoch E.Ebenfalls mit dabei ist das gut gepolsterte Gig-Bag aus Büffelleder.
Der Wert des Bass-Sax liegt bei ca. EUR 6.500 zzgl. EUR 500 für das Bag.
Helen Translate says….
Offering:
One Rene Guenot bass saxophone, including gig bag.
The bass sax is used, but is totally ready to play! It has a full, rich sound, and tunes to A=440. I have been playing it with a Meyer mouthpiece.
Year of manufacturing circa 1900.
Style: like a Conn.
Keyed from low Bb to high Eb.Included with the sale is a well-padded gig bag made of buffalo leather.
The value of the sax is approximately €6,500, plus €500 for the gig bag.
A couple of things about this horn. The sax is newer than 1900. Likely 1930 or there abouts.
I’m not sure if the neck is original. Even though the seller doesn’t mention it being a replacement, the silver colour looks so different from the rest of the horn that although it could just have been polished, it leads me to ask: is it a replacement neck? If I were interested in the sax, I would ask the seller about it.
As far as the gig bag goes, it’s not my personal choice for carrying any horn, let alone a bass saxophone. The only thing gig bags are good for is keeping your tech employed. But hey, that’s just my opinion. Go on, ask your tech which he prefers for his bottom line, and which will give you the best protection. I guarantee you the answers will not be the same.
Here are the rest of the pics of the René Guénot bass saxophone…
If you’re intrigued enough by this René Guénot bass saxophone to have it awaken the nasty GAS gods, then you should know that you have until November 19 to get your bids in. The bids for this vintage bass are to start at €3,500, but at the time of writing no one had put a bid in yet.
Oh, and the other thing that you should know is that the seller is showing sales to Germany only. I know of a number of German would-be bass sax players who are looking for a horn, so this might be their opportunity to find a sax locally.
__________________________________________________________________________
1 Saxophone: Ein Kompendium by Uwe Ladwig, p. 101
2 Ibid.
3 Ibid.
In regard to the question when the the French started to wrap their basses, I was looking for the manufacturing years of the Triebert bass saxophones made by Couesnon, as they could be the first wrapped basses.
In december 2018 new information on this subject will be available on line in:
Howe, Robert S. MD, “The Woodwind Manufacture of Guillaume and Frédéric Triebert: A Re-Evaluation of Their Dating and Methods” (2017). Master’s Theses. 1041. http://digitalcommons.uconn.edu/gs_theses/1041
This study includes a reasonable dating scheme for clarinets, saxophones, sarrusophones and brass instruments made by Gautrot and Couesnon using the Triebert name.
Hi Helen,
This Guenot tenor is the 1928 model.
The left pinky plateau is, except for the nailfile patern, equal to the bas.
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Altes-franzosisches-Tenorsaxophon-RENE-GUENOT-selten-rare-/182285770966?hash=item2a711420d6:g:2ckAAOSw8w1X3l~d
Interesting. You find some of the most unique and unusual horns Theo.
And here is a Douchet bari made for the store of J.Steyn in Zaandam.
Update: The seller ended this auction 2 days before it was to end, supposedly because there was an error in the listing. This bass didn’t appear on eBay again that I noticed, but then I’m not monitoring the site as much as I once did. So either it did appear, and I didn’t see it, or, the seller changed his mind about the sale, or maybe he sold it off eBay.
I haven’t had a chance to look up anything Theo. I’m working on a major project tied to a performance that has me tied up until Jan/Feb. That said, I find this entire history very interesting, and would like to do some research early in the New Year when I finally come up for air.
Helen, about the question when the the French started to wrap their basses.
The four Adolphe Sax Bass saxophones left are not wrapped.
As all Triebert bass saxophones I have seen are, my guess is that these are some of the first wrapped bass saxophones, made by Couesnon.
The German Guillaume Triébert, the inventor of the automatic A/G octave system (on oboe) lived until 1848.
(The A/G octave system on saxophone was patented in 1888 by Leblanc.)
Triebert started his Paris atelier in 1810.
Couesnon made their first saxophones around 1866 when the patent of Adolphe Sax ended.
Couesnon used the Triebert name after 1883, when they bought Triebert & Co, for excellent instruments.
Now I am looking for information on the age of Triebert saxophones.