Bass Saxophone Patent CN101409069A

For years my website has been one of the few where you could find detailed information about the new, Asian-made bass saxophones. Well today I decided it was time to update my collection of articles with something that might come as a surprise to some—it did to me when I first saw it—and look a bit more at the short wrap, AKA French or Selmer-style bass saxophones made by Jinbao. These horns are in fact patented under patent # CN101409069A.

As I was looking through Google’s listing of saxophone patents one day, I happened across something that caught my attention: A listing for a double bass saxophone. 

Although this grabbed my attention, there were no images. Nonetheless I read the abstract that was provided, which said:

The invention relates to a double-bass saxophone, consisting of a mouth piece, a blowing nozzle, a pipe body, a horn mouth and a sound key system. The pipe body consists of the following units: a first body which is set as a reducing straight tube connected with the horn mouth; a second body which is set as a reducing straight tube and arranged in parallel to the first body; a first bent tube which is set as a reducing upswept tube and connected with the first body and the second body; a third body which is set as a reducing straight tube and arranged in parallel to the first body and the second body; a fourth body which is set as a reducing straight tube and arranged in parallel to the first body, the second body and the third body; a third bent tube which is set as a reducing upswept tube and connected with the third body and the fourth body. The double-bass saxophone has the scientific and reasonable structure that the double-bass saxophone is precisely designed and manufactured on basis of intonation and timbre. Therefore, the double-bass saxophone is capable of perfectly performing lowering and refined timbre effect of double bass, thereby adding dramatic music effect to the performance of classical music, jazz music and light music.

Now I was hooked, I  wanted to see images of this thing. So I followed the provided links to the Espacenet patent search site and found what I was looking for… a patent diagram…

A bass saxophone with patent CN101409069A looks like what?

Source: Espacenet.com

Colour me confused. This is a short-wrap bass that has been made for decades by the likes of Selmer and Noblet.

Sure enough, the applicants were Jinbao Musical Instruments Co, Ltd. from Tianjin City. To me this looked like their Selmer-style Bb bass saxophones that the company had been stencilling for years.

A quick check of the patent date indicated to me that that was exactly what I was seeing. The application was filed October 12, 2007. The document was published on April 15, 2009, and had substantively started being examined on June 10th that same year. The patent for this application was then granted December 8, 2010. 

So now I was curious. Why was Jinyin able to obtain a patent on an instrument that was ostensibly a copy of a Selmer-style saxophone? Sadly I am not able to read the original documents, since they were filed in Chinese. 

NB: Both the translated versions provided on Espacenet and Patent Translate were hard to make out due to errors in what are computer-generated translations. In the end I chose to go with Patent Translate, to give readers an easy way to compare the 2 if they so chose.

DESCRIPTION CN101409069A

Contrabass Saxophone
[0001] Technical field

[0002] The invention belongs to the field of western musical instruments, in particular a double bass saxophone.

[0003] Background technique

[0004] The saxophone, also known as the saxophone, was invented by the inventor based on the sounding principle of the Pom flute. This instrument is played with a clarinet. The structure and range of the opening and closing sound hole are similar to those of the clarinet. The tube body is made of copper, so it can It is a brass instrument.
Its timbre is between woodwind and brass instruments. It has the brilliance of brass and the softness of woodwind. The timbre changes beautifully. It is deep and calm, full of emotion, soft and sad. It can not only play classical music well. , And is better at playing jazz music and light music. It is currently a popular instrument in the music industry.

[0005] The structure of a saxophone usually includes: a metal parabolic conical tube body, a mouthpiece similar to a clarinet, a Pom system key system, a mouthpiece and a horn. The mouthpiece and horn are installed at both ends of the tube, and the mouthpiece and the tube. A mouthpiece is installed between the bodies, and the pipe diameter gradually increases from the end of the mouthpiece to the end of the horn.
At present, except for the B flat soprano saxophone which uses straight pipes, the other saxophones are all bent into a pipe shape, including the alto saxophone, tenor saxophone, and baritone saxophone. However, the existing pipe-shaped saxophone still has certain limitations in the sound range, for example, due to its shape and size limitations, it is unable to perform a good performance of the bass tone and timbre.

[0006] Summary of the invention

[0007] The purpose of the present invention is to overcome the shortcomings of the prior art and provide a bass saxophone with reasonable structure, precise design, comfortable performance, and capable of fully expressing the deep and elegant tone effect of bass bass, and extremely rich musical expression.

[0008] The present invention solves its technical problems by adopting the following technical solutions:

[0009] The bass saxophone is composed of mouthpiece, mouthpiece, tube body, horn and tone key system. The mouthpiece, mouthpiece, tube body, and horn are connected in sequence to form a pipe shape. The tone key system is arranged on the tube body. The innovation is: the pipe body is composed of the following parts, and the dimensions of each part of the pipe body are:

[0010] No. 1 body, which is a variable-diameter straight pipe connected to the port, and its length is: 470 to 500 (mm);

[0011] The second body, which is a variable-diameter straight tube, is arranged side by side with the first body, and its length is: 915 to 935(mm);

[0012] The No. 1 elbow, which is a variable-diameter upper elbow, connects the No. 1 body and No. 2 body, and its length is: 225 to 235 (mm);

[0013] The third body, which is a variable-diameter straight tube, is arranged side by side with the second body, and its length is: 305 to 320 (mm);

[0014] The second elbow, which is a reduced-diameter lower elbow, connects the second and third bodies, and its length is: 120 to 135 (mm);

[0015] The fourth body, which is a variable-diameter straight tube, is arranged side by side with the third body, and its length is 112 to122 (mm);

[0016] The third elbow, which is a variable-diameter upper elbow, connects the third body and the fourth body, and its length is: 80 to 95 (mm);

[0017] The whole pipe body has a gradual diameter from ?24 to ?28(mm) to ?110 to ?120(mm);

[0018] The port size is: ?232 ~ ?250(mm);

[0019] The length of the mouthpiece is ?245 to ?270 (mm), and the mouthpiece has a gradual diameter from ?14 to ?18(mm) to ?23 to ?27(mm).

[0020] Moreover, the sounding holes included in the key system are arranged at intervals on the first body, first corner, second body, second corner, and third body.

[0021] Moreover, the butt ends of the No. 2 body and the No. 2 elbow are inserted into a fixing ring card in a detachable manner, and locked and fixed by screws provided on the fixing ring card.

[0022] The advantages and beneficial effects of the present invention are:

[0023] This double bass saxophone has a scientific and reasonable structure, and is designed and developed according to precise tuning and timbre. By precisely controlling the length and diameter of the tube to increase the length and diameter of the tube, the sound propagation distance in the tube is extended, so as to perfect the bass, Elegant timbre effect, the mechanical system runs flexibly and quickly, so as to adapt to the performance needs of difficult music in the performance of portamento, vibrato, voicing, and superblow. The rhythm changes endlessly, adding dramatic musical effects to the performance of classical music, jazz and light music. 

[0024] Description of the drawings

[0025] Figure 1 is a schematic diagram of the structure of the present invention.

[0026] Detailed ways

[0027] The present invention will be described in further detail below with reference to the drawings and specific embodiments.
The following embodiments are only descriptive, not restrictive, and cannot limit the protection scope of the present invention.

[0028] Since the sound key system installed by the saxophone itself is more complicated, a hole cover plate is set corresponding to each sounding hole, and a button is installed on the hole cover plate corresponding to the sounding hole of the second body, and the button is connected to the lower part through the linkage system. The hole cover plate corresponding to the pronunciation hole is linked to control the sounding of the high and low range.
If the key system is shown in the drawings, the structure of the tube itself will be blocked, and the key system involved in the present invention is similar to the existing alto saxophone, so the key system is omitted in the drawings of this embodiment.

[0029] The bass saxophone is composed of mouthpiece 11, mouthpiece 10, tube body, horn 1 and key system. The mouthpiece, mouthpiece, tube body, and horn are connected in sequence to form a pipe shape, and the key system is set on the tube body. Above, the sound key system consists of a sounding hole 3 made on the tube body, a hole cover plate corresponding to the sounding hole, a button and a connecting rod system for controlling the opening and closing of the hole cover plate. The innovation is: the tube body is composed of the following Components, and the dimensions of each part of the pipe body are:

[0030] No. 1 body, label 2: It is a straight pipe with variable diameter connected to the port, its length is: 470 ~ 500 (mm), the best length is 487 (mm);

[0031] No. 2 body, number 7: It is a variable-diameter straight tube, arranged side by side with No. 1 body, its length is: 915 ~ 935(mm), the best length is 929(mm);

[0032] No. 1 elbow, label 5: It is a variable-diameter upper elbow that connects the first body and the second body. Its length is: 225 ~ 235 (mm), the best length is 230 (mm);

[0033] No. 3 body, label 13: It is a variable-diameter straight pipe, which is set side by side with No. 2 body, and is set on a different surface with No. 1 and No. 2 body. Its length is: 305 ~ 320 (mm), and the best length is 312(mm);

[0034] No. 2 elbow, label 12: It is a variable-diameter lower elbow, which connects the second body and the third body, and its length is: 120 ~ 135 (mm), the best length is 127 (mm);

[0035] No. 4 body, number 9: It is a variable-diameter straight pipe, arranged side by side with No. 3 body, its length is: 112 ~ 122(mm), the best length is 117(mm);

[0036] No. 3 elbow, label 8: It is a variable-diameter upper elbow, connecting the third body and the fourth body, its length is: 80 ~ 95 (mm), the best length is 88 (mm);

[0037] The overall pipe body has a gradual diameter from ?24 to ?28(mm) to ?110 to ?120(mm), and the best pipe diameter can be selected gradually from ?26 to ?116(mm);

[0038] The port diameter is: ?232 ~ ?250 (mm), the best port diameter is ?240 (mm);

[0039] The length of the mouthpiece is: ?245 to ?270(mm), the best length is 258(mm), the mouthpiece is a gradual pipe diameter from ?14 to ?18(mm) to ?23 to ?27(mm), the best pipe diameter can be selected from ?15 Gradually to ?25 (mm).

[0040] Due to the large length of the tube body of the bass saxophone, the sound hole interval included in the key system is set on the first body, the first corner, the second body, the second corner and the third body to meet the needs of operation and pronunciation. 

[0041] Since the lengths of the first body and the second body are relatively large, it is difficult to assemble and install. Therefore, in the present invention, the butt ends of the second body and the second elbow are inserted into a fixed ring card 6 in a detachable manner, and The screw (not numbered in the figure) set on the fixing ring is used for locking and fixing to facilitate installation and adjustment.
The remaining connections between the horn and the horn body and the horn body are fixed in the ring card 4 by welding.

[0042] The double bass saxophone of the present invention is suitable for large-scale band performances, has a range of about three octaves, has a low-pitched, elegant and fine pitch, and is a professional-level saxophone instrument.

CLAIMS CN101409069A

1. A double bass saxophone, composed of mouthpiece, mouthpiece, tube body, horn, and tone key system. The mouthpiece, mouthpiece, tube body, and horn are connected in sequence to form a pipe shape, and the tone key system is arranged on the tube body. The innovation is: the tube body is composed of the following parts, and the dimensions of each part of the tube body are:
•No. 1 body, which is a variable-diameter straight pipe connected to the port, and its length is: 470 to 500 (mm);
•The second body, which is a variable-diameter straight tube, is arranged side by side with the first body, and its length is: 915 ~ 935(mm);
•The No. 1 elbow, which is a variable-diameter upper elbow, connects the No. 1 body and No. 2 body, and its length is: 225 ~ 235 (mm);
•The third body, which is a variable-diameter straight tube, is arranged side by side with the second body, and its length is: 305 ~ 320 (mm);
•The second elbow, which is a reduced-diameter lower elbow, connects the second and third bodies, and its length is: 120 to 135 (mm);
•The fourth body, which is a variable-diameter straight tube, is arranged side by side with the third body, and its length is 112 to 122 (mm);
•The third elbow, which is a variable-diameter upper elbow, connects the third body and the fourth body, and its length is: 80 ~ 95 (mm);
•The whole pipe body has a gradual diameter from ?24 to ?28(mm) to ?110 to ?120(mm);
•The port size is: ?23 to ?250(mm);
•The length of the mouthpiece is ?245 to ?270 (mm), and the mouthpiece has a gradual diameter from ?14 to ?18(mm) to ?23 to ?27(mm).

2.The bass saxophone of claim 1, wherein the sounding holes included in the key system are arranged at intervals on the first body, the first corner, the second body, the second corner, and the third body.

3.The bass saxophone according to claim 1, characterized in that: the butt end of the second body and the second elbow is inserted into a fixed ring card in a detachable manner, and is performed by screws provided on the fixed ring card. Lock and fix.

What exactly are the Selmer specs? 

Wow! I would really love to see the specs for a Selmer bass saxophone, since these guys were given a patent for what exactly? So you change the measurement (presumably) of the the tubing, and you are eligible for a patent? I’m surprised companies haven’t applied for a patent for those Selmer knock-offs they are producing. Or maybe they have, and I just haven’t seen them because I haven’t been looking. 😈 

What am I not understanding? There must be something obvious I am missing… What exactly, I don’t know…

Yup, the Germans said it was OK… sigh…

I realize that the German courts threw open the floodgates to the widespread copying of saxophones in the early 1960s when they ruled that D&J could in effect produce exact copies of JK Toneking and The New King tenor saxophones, but to get patents? This seems to take this copying to a whole other level. 

I do wish I could try one of these Jinbao-made bass saxophones for myself. I have tried a Jinyin-made one. But as for these Jinbao ones, I have spoken to, and corresponded with many past, present, and would-be owners of a variety of Jinbao-made stencil horns. Let’s just say their reactions have been mixed. 

So to know exactly what we’re talking about, here is a Jinbao-stencilled Levante Bb bass saxophone that was listed on Amazon.com in November 2015 for $6,397.49.

And here is a Selmer Series II Bb bass saxophone. Contact your local Selmer dealer for a price on this one. Yes, it costs more than the one shown above, but let’s face it: You get what you pay for.

Looking for owners or techs

If there are any owners of Selmer Super Action 80 Series II or Mark VI bass saxophones here, who have also played a Jinbao or a Jinbao-stencil, I would love to hear your input. Or if you are a tech, and you’ve worked on both, same request. I know techs who have worked on one or the other, but I can’t think of any I know personally who have worked on both—at least none I can think of off the top of my head.

Basically I am looking to answers to the following questions:

1. How similar do these horns play? Is one or the other easier/better to play?
2. What is there tone like? Are they the same? Similar?
3. How are they laid out? Do they feel similar/the same under the fingers?
4. How are they intonation-wise? Do they have the same intonation quirks?
5. How are they constructed? Is one heavier than the other?
6. How are they built? Can you give me assessment on the build quality of both?
7. Is there any play in the keys? If so, which keys, on which horn? On which keys? If you own the horn, how long after you owned it did you start to notice it?

My final thoughts, but I am open to being wrong

I would be willing to stake my collection of vintage beauties on the fact that in 25 years of serious use by a pro player, a Series II will be in much better condition than a Jinbao one that has seen equal use. My bet: The Jinbao horn will be either a lamp, umbrella stand, or otherwise recycled piece of metal. This is just my opinion based on my personal experiences with modern horns made in China and Taiwan. Go ahead, prove me wrong. I’m completely open to it.

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