Determining A Vintage Saxophone’s Value
Determining A Vintage Saxophone’s Value

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Determining A Vintage Saxophone’s Value

I get a fair number of emails from people wondering how much their vintage saxophones are worth, or if a vintage sax they are thinking of buying is over-priced. Oftentimes the brands people email about, are the obscure ones that I have in my personal collection, and that I have dedicated pages for on my main website, such as: Pierret, La Monte, & Hammerschmidt.

When I get questions like this, I tend to refer them to a thread that Pete Hales, the artist formerly known as saxpics, wrote in the Woodwind Forum. It is a really good reference tool to help people figure out for themselves, what their vintage sax is worth.

This is what Pete suggests for your everyday, run-of-the-mill, vintage horn. (Because it appeared on the Woodwind Forum, and thus included information for all woodwinds, where easily possible, I’ve edited the thread to include only the saxophone-specific content.)

  Determining Vintage Horn Values Part 1

1. Go to eBay. Register.
2. Look for *closed* ads with pictures for the same make and model instrument as yours in the same condition as yours. That last part’s important. Condition can add or subtract a LOT of value.
3. You’re going to want an average. Write down a list of #2. The larger the list, the better.
4. Fire up Google or your favorite search engine. Start searching dealers for the same make and model instrument as yours in the same condition as yours. Use dealers that have pictures on their websites.

Aside: So, you think dealers charge too much of a premium? Nope. MOST don’t.

In most cases, dealers realize that eBay and other online auctions can provide about the same quality and a lot more quantity at a good price, so they’ve got to be competitive. This means that a dealer’s horn is either a) in better condition or b) is just priced competitively. In most cases. There are still some dealerships that think that based on former clientele or based on who they have (had) working there, they can charge a premium. These places are fairly obvious. Avoid them.

5. You’re going to want an average. Write down a list of #4. The larger the list, the better.
6. Add up #3 and #5. Take an average. Presto! That’s how much your horn’s worth.

If your sax falls outside of the realm of the everday, such as a Hammerschmidt, or if it’s not a pro horn:

* There are the rare cases where you can’t find a specific horn anywhere. I can help with those.
* Here’s another rule-of-thumb that works about as well as any rule of thumb: your student horn is worth squat, except if it’s a Yamaha. In which case, it’s worth about 1/3 what you paid for it, new.
* Here’s another rule-of-thumb that works about as well as any rule of thumb: your intermediate horn is worth about 1/3 what you paid for it, new. Even if you bought it in 1943 for $50.

  Determining Vintage Horn Values Part 2 

Monetary value does not equal playability value.

Here are two examples.

One of the most vastly undervalued saxophones is something called the “Buffet SuperDynaction”. Alto versions commonly sell in the $500 range. These horns are easily the equivalent of any top-of-the-line professional model that costs $2000+.

Conversely, slap the name “Selmer” on a saxophone, and you can get some deluded souls paying $1500+ for a Modele 22. Made in 1922. With 1922 keywork. And intonation. And handling. Yes, it has decent tone, but so do about a dozen other horns and a half-dozen others from the same era have better intonation and a couple even have better keywork, too. You’re paying for the name.

  Determining Vintage Horn Values Part 3

Missing Keys

I get a lot of e-mails from folks that have bought (never “about to buy”) but bought an instrument of some kind and it’s perfect … except it’s missing 95% of its keywork.

To a certain extent, if you’ve bought an instrument that is MISSING a part, you can try to find (usually) on eBay a beater instrument of the same make and model and around the same serial number that has that part intact and just swap the parts. That is going to be the cheapest, easiest and best thing.

A lot of folks also ask something like, “I’ve got a 1925 Conn New Wonder in perfect shape, but it’s missing the low C# key. I’ve got a 1925 Buescher True Tone that’s a beater. Can I get the C# to fit?”

If you have some wire snips, a soldering iron and a Dremel tool, yes. I’ve seen several horns that have mis-matched parts. It doesn’t look good. It doesn’t play good and I wouldn’t buy your horn. So that makes me value it at $0.

Missing Necks, Barrels or Joints

The easiest and cheapest solution is to do what I mentioned above: you can try to find (usually) on eBay a beater instrument of the same make and model and around the same serial number that has that part intact and just swap the parts. However, do note it’s possible that these parts may have serial numbers that are supposed to match the rest of the horn. This can put a ding on your horn’s overall value if the serial numbers don’t match. Playability? May not matter.

Now, there are several third-party companies that make saxophone necks and clarinet barrels. Say I’m gonna buy a Selmer Centered Tone clarinet on eBay. One has an original barrel and the other has a third-party barrel. Everything else is about the same. It’s a pretty easy choice that the one with the original part will be valued higher. The only exception to this rule seems to be flutes and their headjoints — in most cases. Or bassoons and their bocals.

Mouthpieces are generally not included in this discussion. I’m not a mouthpiece guy and each mouthpiece can be valued independently of the instrument. (And while we’re on the topic, don’t sell used reeds unless you have an exotic instrument that someone will have to copy from to make a new one, like a Sarrusophone or a rackett. Selling used reeds should get you put in jail for breaking health laws.)

Relacquer

Relacquering can be done a variety of different ways, but the most common is to mechanically strip the old lacquer, mechanically buff the horn and then apply a new coat of lacquer. This a) removes metal, b) makes the engravings dull (or completely eliminates them) and c) can damage the tone holes, leaving you with an instrument that is either unplayable or just has intonation problems.

A lot of people will not buy a relacquered instrument, period.

At the very least, consider relacquering a significant hit in price. And don’t tell me your relacquered horn is “minty”. It’s not. It’s relacquered.

MOST saxophones, up until approximately 1930, were not originally sold in lacquer. They were lacquered at a later date. That’s not to call them “relacquers”, necessarily, but — especially if the horn’s an American make — if the horn is that old and it’s lacquered, you want to check it very, very closely. Prefer these instruments in some plating or bare brass.

 Replating

Replating can ADD value to your horn. But remember, it’s expensive and is generally part of an overhaul package. IIRC, replating an alto saxophone and re-cutting the engraving is close to $1500 US. That’s not really bad if you’ve got a horn that’s been REALLY good, but you need overhauled or if someone’s given you a desirable make/model of an instrument that you’ve determined could be worth well beyond the overhaul price in perfect shape. However, it depends: I’d almost rather pay $75 for the junker horn that’s a make and model I really want and have it restored the way I want by the people I want.

  Determining Vintage Horn Values Part 4

There is a difference between “vintage” and “old”. To me, when you say that you have a “vintage instrument” it should ….

a. No longer be produced, anywhere.
b. Have been considered a professional make and model when it was made.
c. Have value as a professional make and model, today, as a playable instrument or have value as a collectible make and model (for instance, a high-pitch Conn New Wonder alto saxophone in Virtuoso Deluxe finish — a very expensive, elaborate, gold plated, heavily engraved finish with additional pearl keytouches — is still “vintage”, even though it has virtually no playibility value).
d. Have maintained its original value, adjusted for inflation, or increased in value.

“Vintage”, to me, should have the connotation of a fine wine: “It’s an excellent vintage.”

Or, using an analogy from the automobile world, a 1934 Cord is vintage. A 1972 Ford Pinto is old.

  Determining Vintage Horn Values Part 5

It amuses me — in a sick way — when I see eBay ads that contain copy in the form of, “This instrument is a copy of the (insert famous name make and model)!” That really may be the case, sometimes: for instance, I can successfully argue that the entirety of the German saxophone market up until, oh, 1960 or so, was based on making very good copies of the Conn saxophones. However, when you see a statement like, “This instrument is a copy of the (insert famous name make and model)!” in an eBay ad, the seller is really saying, “This instrument is kinda junk, but I’m going to compare it to (insert famous name make and model) in hopes of generating hits.”

Which is a shame. Some of those instruments don’t deserve that kind of copy because they stand up just fine on their own merits, but because of the sensationalist ad copy, a lot of people (including me) would not even bother bidding.

(Unless the person screws up in the wrong direction and does offer a really, really nice pro horn for $7. Of course.)

On eBay, several years ago, there was someone that was taking some relatively decent saxophones and engraving them in the style of other “super pro” instruments. And selling them as such. Moral: if you’re buying from eBay, you’d better know what you’re looking at — including how much it’ll cost to fix — and pay accordingly. If you don’t want the hassle, browse the web for a respectable dealer and buy on a “trade-in guarantee” basis: if you really don’t like the horn, you can turn it in for something else (a lot of dealers have this policy). As I’ve mentioned above, most dealers are NOT charging a great premium, if any at all, over eBay.

…this is just my blog. My “real” website is www.bassic-sax.info. If you’re looking for sax info, you should check it out too.There’s lots there!

32 Comments

  1. Abi

    I have a few vintage saxophones: alto, c melody, and bari. Some of them came with original cases. The cases are in bad condition so all three saxophones are stored in new cases now. Does having the original case add any value to the instrument?

    1. leonAzul

      Hi Abi,

      Not really, Unless they are in exceptional, collectable condition, or are essentially sound cases of a particularly desirable type (some multi-instrument “tray-pack” cases come to mind) worth refurbishing with new hardware and coverings.

      HTH,

      paul

      1. Further to Paul’s comment, there are certain brands of horns—for example Selmer, King, and even Martin—for whom the original case is most definitely a bonus when it comes to value.

        I think most of us are familiar with the value of vintage Selmer saxophone cases—especially if they are tray-pack ones. Here’s a fun fact: Buescher made/and or sold multi-horn cases as well. My tech has a Buescher True Tone alto in his shop right now. The horn needs a rebuild, and its case is a vintage case from the same vintage that also holds a soprano. Now that case is would be worth restoring.

        The owner of hnwhite.com restores vintage King cases to to sell with his minty vintage King horns.

        So the answer to your question is: it depends.

        I always tell people: If the case doesn’t stink, even if you replaced it, and it is the original, hang onto it. It is a part of the horn’s history. The next owner of the horn might appreciate it.

  2. Sue

    Hi- I have a vintage sax that belonged to my dad and I am trying to find out if it has any value as an antique or collectible. It is gold plated Conn sax, with a date of Dec. 1914, which I understand might be the patent date. It has beautiful art nouveau engraving on it with pearlized keys and the original case lined in dark green velvet. I read where someone had this model and listed it as the “naked lady” sax, and this one has a female nude on the horn also. Condition is good, all the gold plating is intact, but it hasn’t been played in 50 years. Any idea as to the value?
    Thanks so much for any info you can provide-
    Sue

    1. Yes, that is the patent date.

      As for value, that really depends on condition. Without seeing good, clear photos I can’t give you any idea.

      The question I always ask in these cases is: Why do you need to know the value? The horn belonged to your dad. It has sentimental value. Do you plan to sell it? Then use eBay to look up the approximate value based on similar horns that have sold in the past few months.

      If on the other hand, you need to know for insurance purposes, then that’s a different matter. You should phone around and find a tech who knows vintage saxophones to do up an appraisal for you. (If he/she thinks it’s worth it.) My tech charges $25 for such an appraisal. Those prices will likely vary on where you live. I’m in in the Metro Vancouver Region of Canada.

      If you’re simply curious for your own knowledge, then the eBay method mentioned in the article—although a bit dated—will also work for that.

      One thing that pops out from your description is you mention your dad’s horn is gold plated. I’m curious what drew you to that conclusion. Gold plated Conn 6M altos certainly do exist, but not nearly in the numbers that lacquer ones do. The difference could make a difference in price, but not necessarily a great deal. It depends on the other features the horn has, and what serial # range the horn falls into.

      Hope this helps…

      1. Sue

        Thanks for your response, Helen. My husband and I are downsizing and moving to a smaller place, and no one else in the family wants it, so we plan to sell it. I did look to eBay first, but the prices were all over the place and it was very difficult to know the value. Would hate to part with something of real value through ignorance, and was just wondering if it was rare and/or unusual.
        Serial # 1119954 C below that 8 8 3 5 0, below that L
        I assumed it was gold plating since there is no tarnish on it at all, and I would think that brass would tarnish-
        Hope this helps to determine if it is just a run of the mill one or something a collector might want. Thanks-
        Sue

        1. Brass does tarnish, but not if it’s lacquered. If the finish is spotless, then that’s a definite bonus as lacquer wear is pretty much the norm on any “player horn”, let alone one 80-plus years old. It could be (but probably isn’t) a relacquer, though. Look at the engraving. If it’s clear and sharp and goes THROUGH the lacquer, then the lacquer is probably original. If the engraving has been slightly rounded over by buffing and the grooves have lacquer in them, it’s probably a relacquer. Since this isn’t an incredibly rare or coveted instrument, it probably wouldn’t hurt the value THAT much if it’s a relacquer.

          As Helen said, gold plating did and still does exist, but it’s definitely an expensive option. Only you would know if your father would have been inclined to spend the money for it.

          1. Sue

            It was not re-lacquered, and although he came from a lower middle class working family, the sax was a gift from an uncle who had some money
            Not sure if these pictures went through, but perhaps this might help. How would you know if it was gold as opposed to brass?
            Thank you

            Sue

                  1. Sue

                    Could this be the Conn “New Wonder” alto sax in virtuoso deluxe finish? It looked like the same as others pictured online.

                    Thanks so much for any info you can give me.

            1. I think you can indeed rule out it being relacquered. The detail in the engraving would be softened if it was, but your engraving is sharp and clear. It COULD actually be gold plated (in which case it will have silver underneath the gold). It would be easy to tell in person, but not so much from photos. I’d inspect for any sign that the lacquer has chipped or peeled anywhere — it could be a tiny blemish, but it would prove that there is lacquer. If it’s spotless, I’d hold it near a lamp to deliberately produce a reflection. Lacquer is never completely smooth, where gold pretty much would be, so reflections off lacquer will have subtle distortion and color splitting in them. (This is not a problem, you really have to try hard to notice this effect.)

              I have a horn that is silver plated, with gold over the neck and the inside of the bell, but that doesn’t really count because I did that myself. 🙂 In terms of color, clear-coated brass and (uncoated) gold are pretty darn close, which is why it’s so hard to tell from a photo.

  3. Rigoberto Gonzales

    I have this saxophone that was in some ladies house i helped remove “trash” from and i cant find a make or model just engravings of the number 1 by the neck, the serial number, and the words germany east on the upper neck. Also some decorative engraving on the bell. I’ve looked online and all I can figure is it was made around 1950. Can anybody help me find it’s value? Plz thank you.

    1. Hello Rigoberto. Welcome to my website.

      Can you send me some more photos of the sax. Please include photos of all sides of the sax, including the left side—with a separate shot of the left pinkie keys—as well as any engraving on the bell. Also, please include the stamping that says made in East Germany, as well as a photo of the left thumb rest & octave key & mechanism. You can send all the photos to my email account.

      I think I know what it is, but in order to confirm it, I need more than 1 picture, since there are a few horns that share common characteristics.

  4. Cadence Hamlin

    What do you think its worth? It has a few spots of corrosion but I have prevented them from growing. It is playable but I dont have the lungs to play it (nor the mouth) I will stick to my tenor (60s king) and sax (bundy selmer 60s). If you could respond that would be pleasant.

  5. Cadence Hamlin

    @Helen, I have checked the serial number multiple times on my Bari Sax and if it is true it should have been made in 1919, but it says that it was payed in September 14th, 1915. The brand, I couldn’t find anywhere it says Columbia (Made in USA). I will send pictures, if you can find facts about this Sax could you reply to here? Thanks. It also has a mark saying wd no. 200,020

    1. Theo

      according to hornucopia: Columbia was as a trade name from 1910 to 1946 for brass instruments.
      200020 could mean 20th instrument. Sometimes the serial numbers was increased to look better.
      There is also the Columbian stencil attributed to Conn. Check the name for a possible last n.
      If it was made by Conn in 1910 the toneholes should be soldered.

  6. Tom

    Hi there,

    very interesting article, thank you for your work!

    I currently have the opportunity to get a used Yanagisawa SC-800 (manufactured in 1980) for 950€ (=1050 USD). It has been serviced a year ago and plays fine.
    Would you consider this a good price? Unfortunately, I could not find any SC-800’s on ebay, nor on Google. What do you think is the market value for this instrument?

    Thank you!

    Kind regards
    Tom

  7. Tim Smith

    That’s great to hear. I know when I played it, what’s feels like Eons ago, it was the smoothest sounding sax. I am hoping it will be just the same for my son. We are pretty determined to get a ballpark dollar value on it, just for knowing sake. Thanks for your input though, every little tidbit helps.

    1. leonAzul

      Hi Tim,

      I just noticed after all these months that neither Helen nor I gave you a number in answer to your query about the worth of your alto. There’s a good reason for that.

      But first, I believe I answered your basic question: the sax is definitely worth the trouble and expense of repairing and maintaining it. Buescher saxophones from that era have a well-earned reputation for quality materials and workmanship.

      For insurance purposes, I would appraise such an instrument in excellent condition somewhere around $1,500.00. A badly abused example might have difficulty trading for 1/10th that price, and an exceptionally well-kept instrument of historical interest (the alto that Sigurd Rascher used in the first public performance of Concertino da Camera, for example) might easily sell for 10 times that amount.

  8. leonAzul

    Hi Tim,

    Pardon me while I butt in. This is a classic. In its time (about 1925) it was arguably the best saxophone made in Amerca. With care and gentle use I suspect it shall continue to be a professional-grade instrument for another 90 years.

    Best,

    paul

  9. Tim Smith

    I have a saxophone that was given to me by an elderly lady back in 1990. I played it in 6th grade all through high school. I left for the Marine Corp and it stayed with my parents. Fast forward 20 years to today and my 6th grade son wants to play it as well. I have it in the shop getting looked at. My question is how much is this sax worth? I want to get it fixed, but if it costs more to fix than what it’s worth I may just store it. Saxophone info is as follows:

    Buescher tru-tone
    Serial number 165xxx
    Pat 12/1918

    It does play, but needs a polishing and tune up. Cosmetically it is dent free and probably could use a good acid bath. Any info you have would be much appreciated.

    1. Hi there Tim. Welcome to my site.

      I have an updated version of this article on my website. Following the steps outlined will give you a pretty good estimation on what your horn might be worth.

      At this point I can’t really offer you much help since I don’t know what kind of saxophone it is: soprano, alto, tenor, baritone, other? I also don’t know what kind of condition it is in.

      If you would like me to assist you further, please check out this page on my website. It will explain what I need in order to help you best.

      The plus side is that Buescher True Tones are very common saxophones, and finding comparables is usually not very difficult.

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