…any saxophone, made in the past say 100 years, in virtually new condition, what would it be? And by new, I mean play-tested in the factory, sent to a store, sold, and then put in a closet and forgotten about, until it was discovered just a few days ago.
There are so many possibilities, that when I started to think about what I would like to find, I was overwhelmed. But in order to answer the question fairly, I could only pick 1 horn. Choices, choices, choices. Which horn would I like to find the most?
After much waffling, I decided that the sax I would most like to find in my best friend’s closet, would be an Oscar Adler, Triumph model tenor.
Oscar Adler is the company that holds the distinction of having made the first saxophone in the German-speaking region. This occurred in 1901.
The Triumph was Adler’s top of the line model; was keyed from low Bb to high G; and was built with 11 extra keys. Its key system was similar to that of the Buffet Apogeé. As of the 1930s, the Triumph was only available in alto, tenor, and C mel versions.
Sadly I can’t show you a photo of what a Triumph tenor looks like, since I haven’t actually seen one. However, here are some great photos of the alto owned by Italy’s, Attilio Berni.
What got me thinking about this topic, was a thread that one of the members of the Woodwind Forum started a few days ago. He’s a repair tech, and someone recently walked into his shop with a 1965 Selmer Mark VI tenor, that still had its original plastic wrap around it.
Now while a minty Mark VI tenor from 1965 will always be worth more than an obscure German saxophone—even one as rare as the Triumph—I’m not interested in the value. I never buy my horns with an eye to what they’re worth. I buy them with an eye to what they are, and/or what they sound like.
Is the sax rare? Is it an unusual specimen in some way? If the answer is “yes” to either of these questions, then the horn has a chance of coming home with me.
Do I already have one like it? Do I already have one that sounds anything like it? If the answer to those questions is “no”, then the horn’s chances of finding its way home in my car, have risen dramatically.
So what about you. What sax would you like to find in minty condition? It can be old. It can be newer. It can be any size you want.
@joe: A very safe choice, especially compared to mine. 😉
@leonAzul: I agree with you on the “changes of impedance north of high F”. This is why I generally don’t like horns with high F# keys. That said, my Toneking is completely fine. It appears not to have suffered with the added high F# key. I’m not so sure I can say the same about the the Hohner however. I’d like to play a Hohner President without a high F#, and see what the differences are. Or for that matter, if there are any.
@Bob: Yes, a C bass might be fun. It certainly would open up a lot more bass parts, since you could read bass clef parts without transposing them. Tuba & euphonium players watch out… here comes the bass sax. 😈
Hi Helen,
I think you picked up on the sarcasm in my description of the way that many instrument with a high F# tone hole feel to me. You also seem to share my experience that it is the tenors that suffer the most from this.
My conjecture, at least with regard to brand “S,” is that the physical requirements of such additional tone holes have such an obvious impact on alto saxophones that designers have no choice but to consider adjustments in the body tube, receiver, and neck (bocal) dimensions, just to keep the instruments from breaking every time they are assembled and disassembled. With the tenor and baritone voices, there is the temptation to just calculate the placement, draw or drill the hole “according to Hoyle,” find that the resulting scale is “mostly harmless,” and ship it out.
And another thing. 😡 The way that certain makers placed an auxiliary high Eb/D# (mostly useful but superfluous as a C5-D5 trill) key under the right-hand index finger is IMHO “effin’ genius,” and the more natural place to locate a high F# key, in combination with an additional high G key, rather than the current convention of forcing one to violently displace one’s finger tips to activate those keys. :wtf:
Pardon my rant,
paul
No need to apologize for rants. I do them all time… and mine are much worse. 😀
I haven’t played enough “S” branded horns with a high F# key to properly assess the differences between those with and without. Having said that, my VI soprano has one, and it doesn’t effect the horn at all adversely, and does come in handy when I want to call the dog. 😉 😆
Seriously though, I’m not a fan of high F# keys on any horns. The front F, combined with altissimo fingerings appropriate for whatever horn, work really well, and tend to set you up better for going higher anyway. I guess my old school thinking is showing. 😉
I find it interesting to work with students who have only ever played horns with high F# keys. They are severely handicapped when they are confronted with a sax for the first time, that doesn’t have it.
BTW, JK’s Tonekings (can’t speak about newer JKs) have their high F# keys located exactly where you’re suggesting: under the right-hand index finger. Max Keilwerth put the high F# on the Hohner President, in with the left palm keys. What’s weird about the Hohner is, that it has rolled tone holes on all of them except the high F#. :wtf:
If the horns weren’t of such a high calibre, and MK wasn’t such a good designer, it could look like an afterthought. However, that’s clearly not the case. I wonder though, why the high F# isn’t rolled. Better projection? The horn is very dark, and the palm keys tend to be “stuffy”. Playing with an open throat is an absolute must to get the Hohner to sound at its full potential in the high register & to be able to project up there.
Hi Helen, other than a Conn-O-Sax, next might also be one out of the Oscar Adler stable:- a C-Bass Sax ! As well as never-yet-seen Triumph model Tenors and C-Melodies, your site refers to their Bass Saxes in the key of C (not ‘Triumph’ model); but hey, I would settle for finding ANY C-Bass Sax. Update: my ‘Triumph’ Alto is still in shop, but I will be checking for “changes in impedance” of its high F# and G…
Hi Helen,
Interesting choice. I have to say that, based on my experience, the mechanism on the Triumph series looks very close to my ideal of something that would fall naturally under my fingers. I would definitely want to try one before I would buy one, though.
The reason for my skepticism is that, again in my experience, very few instruments properly compensate for the changes in impedance that tone holes “north” of the high F introduce.
Yet I also find it counter-intuitive and uncomfortable to adapt to mechanisms that operate such keys with the first two fingers of the right hand. It’s squirrelly enough to operate the chromatic F# with the right hand ring finger, the way that most saxophones have this key positioned, and still maintain a hand position that properly stabilizes the instrument without causing excessive stress on the right wrist.
Peace,
paul
Sml gold medal