Getting real on Selmer sax prices

17 Comments

1. July 12, 2022 at 12:41 am 3 years ago

   

   Theo

   Today my computer counted around 140000 video’s on the subject of cheap vs expensive saxophones. When I compare that to the few silver eagles sold it suggests that saxophone players are really in the bargain basement of the music world.

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   1. July 23, 2022 at 8:10 am 3 years ago

      

      admin

      Absolutely Theo. Bargain basement for use. Maybe even lower. Freaking sad lot we are.

      An instrument I didn’t mention is clarinets. Professional wooden clarinet players pay more than we do for our horns, and often replace their instruments every few years. Why? I am not sure. It is just something I am anecdotally hearing via the musician’s grapevine.

      Our lead symphony players, university profs, and others who spend hours a day playing their wooden instruments, are likely to replace their horns in <10 years. It would be interesting to find out how widespread this is. Perhaps only the top players are doing this, since they are more likely to be company X artists. Or is it due to changes in the wood itself, that makes the clarinet sound, tune, or play differently?

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      1. July 24, 2022 at 10:26 am 3 years ago

         

         Theo

         “Professional wooden clarinet players pay more than we do for our horns, and often replace their instruments every few years. Why?”

         Wood and reeds consists of the same materials. Around 20-25% is a biological glue called lignin. Lignin is soluble in luke warm water (condens, never call it spit) and it slowly disapears from the reed and from the clarinet. Without lignine a reed sounds very dry. You can try that by keeping it in warm water for a few hours. When a clarinet loses too much lignine (after years) the wood becomes less elastic. It will certainly change how the instrument feels, The influence on the sound is probably minor.

         I guess that the combination of a change in how the instrument feels and the perception of a higher risk in cracks and in a mechanical malfunction, can affect the replacement time for their black stick of the devil. How they deal with such uncertainty is of course highly subjective.

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2. October 18, 2021 at 10:05 am 4 years ago

   

   Matthew Stoecker (quinntheeskimo on eBay)

   I object to your characterization of vintage Selmers that are on eBay as not being of the same quality as ‘reputable dealers’. That can be true, but there are reputable dealers, namely myself, who have made a business decision to use the internet as our primary sales channel and eBay is a huge part of that strategy. Every horn we sell on eBay, though, has been through our shop, is ready to play, and has an unconditional return policy. I think it would have been better to note that NOT ALL Selmers you find on eBay are sold by reputable dealers, but there are at least a few of us here.

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   1. October 18, 2021 at 10:40 am 4 years ago

      

      Helen

      Absolutely Matt. Point taken.

      I know everything you sell is top notch. You are a shining beacon in the eBay sea of a lot of crap, and lately, these days more than ever before, misrepresentation and counterfeit. I know that if I bought Selmer, Yani, or anything else from your shop, it would be the genuine article, and it would play.

      My apologies for the way in which my article was worded. I was indeed thinking more of brick and mortar stores.

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      1. October 18, 2021 at 7:20 pm 4 years ago

         

         Matthew Stoecker

         Thank you so much for the kind words 🙂 And no harm done 🙂

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         1. October 24, 2021 at 12:08 pm 4 years ago

            

            Helen

            Tweaked the wording a bit Matt to clarify things. You were totally correct, and I stand corrected.

            PS: Still like your alto rothophone. Wish it were a tenor or bari. 😉

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3. October 18, 2021 at 9:04 am 4 years ago

   

   Tenor Lady

   Thanks for this article, certainly something to think about. I wonder if sax players are tight because most of us (if not all?) Double up on something, even if it’s another sax, or all of them plus a few other woodwind instruments!

   Added to that, the perception of value does tend to be relative, so we can only really compare our costs with those of the other musicians that we work with. I’m mainly into rock n roll and my instrument costs far outstrip those of my band mates for example.

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   1. October 18, 2021 at 10:50 am 4 years ago

      

      Helen

      It’s funny, b/c I played with a guitar player who used a Gibson “Gold Top”. It cost waaaaaay more than any of my saxes.

      Really good kits costs more than saxophones. The drummer I worked with in the blues band bought a new D.W. kit that was enormous, and had every kind of drum, cymbal, and doodad you could think of. The cost? Again, way more than my saxophones.

      Those 2 exceptions aside, I don’t know what the prices of truly pro keys, synths, guitars, drums, bass guitars, etc are. I do know that for those musicians, the choices are far more plentiful than what saxophone players have.

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4. October 16, 2021 at 1:55 pm 4 years ago

   

   Woody

   Excellent article. Thanks for putting this together. I have a SA80ii that I bought used in mint condition. It was either that or a YAS-62iii. I got the Yamaha first, and it had issues (bought from online retailer). For almost the same price, I got my Selmer from the tech I brought the new Yamaha to because of it’s playability issues. Initially I was unhappy because I had always played Yamahas. But I grew into it, and wouldn’t part with it for anything. It’s not a Mark VI. So what? It’s become MY voice and I didn’t break the bank to buy it.

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   1. October 17, 2021 at 9:23 am 4 years ago

      

      Helen

      Hey there Woody. Welcome to The Bassic Sax Blog. 🙂

      I think that there are some smoking hot Selmer horns that aren’t BA, SBA, or Mark VIs. My VIs have all been with me for decades, but if something were to happen to them, I don’t know what I would do. I know I wouldn’t necessarily replace them with VIs again.

      I have played some amazing Mark VII tenors. I absolutely love the horns. I was actually going to buy my friend’s tenor about 10 years ago, but stuff happened. She became ill, and her husband was a real jerk. Don’t know what happened with the horn. I suspect he sold it like he sold off all the rest of her music stuff. She had a basement full of rare Hammonds. The Mark VII was almost worthless compared to the rest of musical collection. (She was a keyboard player/teacher who dabbled in saxophone.)

      That trip down memory lane aside, my all-time favorite Selmer that I didn’t own, belongs to my friend Jim. It is a Reference 36 tenor that he got from Kessler & Sons. It plays, feels, and sounds just like my VI. I have talked to Dave Kessler about the horns he sells, and understand what they do with the new Selmers that come in. (They are only 1 of a couple of Selmer Pro Shops in the US.) I know if I ever had to replace any of my horns, Dave would be my first phone call.

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      1. October 24, 2021 at 10:41 am 4 years ago

         

         Woody

         Thank you Helen for the welcome. You mention Kessler & Sons. When I bought my used (and mis-used) SA80ii Tenor, I knew that it would need work. I bought it with the intention of having it overhauled by Kessler & Sons. It is because of them being one of the few Selmer Pro Shops that I went to them, and also because of Dave’s description of the work they’d be doing. The horn I got back was as good as new as far as mechanics and playability. I, too, would go to Dave before anyone else were I to buy a new horn.

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5. October 2, 2021 at 2:27 pm 4 years ago

   

   Theo

   In defense of the saxophone players: Selmer, Conn and Armstrong lost the student saxophone market to Yamaha. But it was not only price related, the set up of the Yamaha student saxophone was just better.

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   1. October 6, 2021 at 8:38 am 4 years ago

      

      Helen

      While that might be true in the student world, it doesn’t really explain the attitudes of buyers looking to purchase pro level saxophones.

      I get what you are saying Theo. A lot about the Yamaha student model horns was better for years. However, since Yamaha switched their production for their student horns away from Japan, and Selmer student horns have stepped up their game over the past few years, I don’t find the differences all that drastic.

      I am continually impressed with the new Selmer student altos and tenors we get in the shop. Why? More than 90% play straight out of the box with 0 adjustment needed before they go out on for a school year rental.

      The shop where I work is a Selmer dealer. On any given year we get about 10-15 new Selmer student model saxophones to top up our rental stock. Over the past 5 or so years, the Selmer products have improved a lot.

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      1. October 6, 2021 at 3:23 pm 4 years ago

         

         Theo

         Around 2015 I also noticed improvements with the Selmer student range. The present Selmer company has made some good choices. Still there is a generation of saxophone players who’s left pinkie can’t find the G# on a 6M.

         Recently I looked for Conn and Keilwerth influences in an 1988 Armstrong saxophone. With a good set up it could have been a better saxophone than the Yamaha, but marketing choices made the look more important than the performance. In the end this difference in marketing approach has influenced the choices of a whole generation.

         A good set up is both expensive and valuable so it is a good choice to learn new sax players the difference between a good set up and a wall decoration on a rental.

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6. September 29, 2021 at 4:56 pm 4 years ago

   

   John

   Good stuff!

   My SBA tenor (a good relac) cost me 3k, SBA alto (really worn-almost no lacquer) 1.5k and a early 21xxx BA near mint alto was also 1.2k!

   They all have their place – along with a 161xxx conn burnished gold sop that outplays any selmer (and I have a few Selmers)

   So. they are really a deal vs. that Schreiber contra bassoon that I sold for $25k

   Getting into Haynes or Powell flutes- or Stradivarius violins…nuts!

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   1. September 30, 2021 at 10:45 am 4 years ago

      

      Helen

      I only have one relacquered/refinished horn. It is my UGLY Mark VI bari—talk about someone getting too friendly with a buffing wheel. The low Eb tonehole is barely there. Yikes!

      That said, its tone kicks ass! I bought it for its sound. I played others, and choose this ugly duckling with its hideous relacquer over pristine examples b/c of its tone. It does classical bari, sweet ballads, electric blues/rock, and every form of jazz equally well. Loves every MP you put on it. As my sax teacher from NY once said: It has that quintessential bari sound, don’t ever change its set-up. It has THE sound jazz players are looking for. Go figure…

      Funny thing, when I bought it, it wasn’t a whole lot cheaper (only 1K) less than original lacquer models. Why? I’m guessing that when the guys in the shop played it, they realized that this bad boy from 1967 sounded like a killer VI—regardless of what it looked like.

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