At the risk of inducing a narcoleptic attack in some of my readers again, 😉 … I’d like to share some very interesting news and photos with you Dörfler & Jörka enthusiasts out there. At least I think there are some of you out there. I can’t be all alone… Can I? 😮 😆
All kidding aside, I get a lot of traffic on my site from people looking for information about these formerly obscure, vintage German saxophones, which are patterned after the J. Keilwerth Tonekings. When I bought my D&J 2 years ago, they were virtually unknown, with only a few mentions, and almost no photos on the ‘Net. What a difference 24 months make.
Over the past 24 months I have done a lot of research myself. In addition, I have partnered with German saxophone historian, author, saxophonist, and repair tech Uwe Ladwig, to write the English language history of Dörfler & Jörka.
I continue to compile as much information about the various D&J stencil saxophones as I can, and as new stencil names pop up and new findings arise, I update the Dörfler & Jörka page on the main portion of my site.
This is why the D&J-stencilled Ravoy I was recently contacted about is important: It shows a very interesting progression in the evolution of this saxophone company’s designs that had not been documented before.
Right Side With Wire Key Guards
Source: Kjell Lundman
Serial #77XX
Source: Kjell Lundman
Ravoy tenor serial #77XX is special for a number of reasons:
- It is the first time that the name Ravoy has appeared as a stencil name;
- #77XX is the lowest confirmed serial # that I have seen from Dörfler & Jörka;
- This sax has wire key guards. This is something not before seen in D&J horns.
Ravoy is not one of the common stencil names. As a matter of fact, this is the first sax I have seen that carries the Ravoy name.
Bell Engraving
Source: Kjell Lundman
Not only is Ravoy not a name seen before on D&J horns, it is not a name that has been associated with saxophones before—at least not according to Google or any of the other search engines I tried.
However, if you look at the bell badge engraving that surrounds the Ravoy name, and compare it to that of some of the known D&J stencils such as this Artist # 300, Clinton, René Dumont, Roxy, Senator, or this Voss, you’ll immediately see that the mountain peaks background is identical. This is the first piece of evidence that tells us we’re looking at yet another a D&J stencil horn.
With regards to serial numbers, the lowest confirmed serial numbers that I have seen to date are Senator tenor # 89XX and Roxy alto #8985. There are other Dörfler & Jörka saxes in the gallery with lower serial numbers. However, the numbers were only provided by the seller and not photographed, thus can’t be verified.
Most notable among these questionable serial number horns is this René Dumont alto, which the seller claimed to be #6021. This number does not make sense given the other René Dumont saxophones I have seen, and especially in light of this Ravoy. Most likely the seller dropped the 1 in front of the 6, and this René Dumont is in fact #16021.
The most obvious difference between this Ravoy and all other D&J horns in my gallery thus far, is its wire key guards. These key guards are very interesting for a number of reasons, not the least of which is that this is the first real piece of solid evidence that tells us that Dörfler & Jörka’s designs evolved to some degree over the 15 or so years that the company produced saxophones.
Until now all D&J key guards have had very distinctive mother of pearl or ersatz mother of pearl buttons on the key guards. These buttons were found on the low Eb and low C keys, as well as on the low Bb and B keys. This was consistent across all the various stencil lines, with the only difference being whether the ordering company ordered real mother of pearl or plastic as the material.
Another interesting point about the wire key guards found on this Ravoy, is that one point of them is attached to the tone holes. This is most visible in the photo of the engraving above.
There are a number of problems with this kind of design. If for example, the key guard gets bumped, the chance is great that tone hole damage may occur. Furthermore, any repair work necessary runs the risk of damaging the tone hole as well. Complicating matters further is the fact that the tone holes on D&J saxes are rolled.
It is not difficult to understand why Dörfler & Jörka redesigned their keyguards.
Where The Thumb Screw Should Be
Source: Kjell Lundman
Unfortunately this sax lost its round thumb screw that keeps the neck in place. Even without this distinctive D&J feature, the mounting on the outside of the socket is consistent with what we see on other other Dörfler & Jörka saxophones. For example, take a look at this Alexander Mainz alto, this René Dumont, and this Roxy.
Also note the shape of the left palm and pinkie keys. They are identical to the ones on this Voss tenor.
Inside The Socket
Source: Kjell Lundman
Note the 2 slots on the inside of the socket, directly inside of where the round thumb screw would normally be. In this photo of Senator alto # 11255, you can clearly see how the thumb screw would fit into the mounting post. The slots presumably allow the screw to hold the neck in place.
The Metal Clothes Guard
Source: Kjell Lundman
This Ravoy sports a metal clothes guard just like all the other D&J horns. Take a look at the size, shape, and location of the clothes guard on this De Villiers, Symphonic, and Voss.
Thumb Rest & Octave Lever
Source: Kjell Lundman
The tear drop shape of the octave lever, and the mother of pearl touch on the thumb rest are both classic Dörfler & Jörka features. Here are the same features on a De Villiers tenor, Senator tenor, Symphonic tenor, and a Voss tenor.
Strap Ring
René Dumont
Source: Kjell Lundman
The location of the strap ring, as well as the appearance of the Bb and side C keys, are all consistent with other D&J horns such as this René Dumont tenor #17620. However, you will notice that the octave mechanism is somewhat different. You can see still another slight variation of the octave mechanism on this De Villiers tenor #11XXX.
Classic D&J Key Shapes
Source: Kjell Lundman
The key guards notwithstanding, this portion of the Ravoy very clearly looks like all the Dörfler & Jörka saxophones that we have seen before. The shape of the right palm keys are classic D&J if you compare them to this Carl Ludwig, or this Symphonic.
The chromatic F# key is identical in shape and location to all of the D&J horns, for example, this H. Genet. And if you need further convincing, compare the shape of the right pinkie keys to those of my De Villiers tenor, and to those of any of the other of the Dörfler & Jörka saxophones in the gallery. You will see that they are identical.
This very stunning Ravoy is an example of a Dörfler & Jörka that shows us that the company didn’t just stick with their original design. They did in fact make some changes, and these changes are for the better. Damage to the tone holes due to bumping of the key guards would have been a real possibility.
One is left wondering: What other possible changes did D&J make to their horns during their nearly 15 years of saxophone production? We know they made changes to their octave key mechanism as well as their tone holes.
Left Side
Source: Kjell Lundman
One of the criticisms levelled against D&J saxophones (by some players) has been that the bores are a different dimension than those of the Tonekings that they are copies of. This change in bore taper, requires the D&J horns to have different necks which also have a different opening at the mouthpiece end, which is smaller than many other saxophones of the same voice. Some players have complained that the D&J horns don’t respond evenly because of this taper issue.
I can’t help but wonder whether D&J might have experimented with different bore dimensions during its existence. Unfortunately despite J. Keilwerth taking over Dörfler & Jörka in the late 1960s, Keilwerth has no company records for D&J. They have no serial number charts, no lists of stencil names, and they certainly wouldn’t have old horn specs and plans. We will thus likely never truly know what D&J may or may not have done throughout their production run with regards to any possible bore changes.
If you’d like to read more about the history of Dörfler & Jörka, Saxophonherstellung, and find out more about their saxophones, check out the D&J page on the main portion of my site. As I mentioned at the top, the page changes semi-regularly, as I find new information about the former German saxophone company and its horns.
I have a Rene Dumont tenor and it always plays great from low to high. Don’t be afraid to buy one :saxplayer: :saxplayer:
Hi Mike. Rene Dumont had their saxophones made by a number of different companies. Although D&J seem to by far and way have made the most, I have seen quite a few made by Pierret as well. Pierret saxophones are lovely as well, and they too are worth a look.
You are correct, D&J horns shouldn’t be shied away from. I have a lovely De Villiers tenor that I bought years ago, which is the horn that started me down the road researching the brand. It is identical to my 1957, Series III JK Toneking in tone. The only thing the De Villiers is not quite as friendly in, is the ergos—especially the right thumb hook.