As I mentioned a couple of days ago, I got my Hohner President alto earlier this week. I bought it from my SOTW buddy JayePDX, who owns 2nd ending vintage musical instruments. Jaye regularly has some very interesting vintage saxophones for sale through his shop.
For example, it’s not unusual to see Hohners, Oscar Adlers, and Max Keilwerth horns up for sale through Jaye’s store. Until a couple a weeks ago I was very well-behaved, but when I saw the Hohner alto he had, I couldn’t help myself. I had to give into temptation. It was literally the alto I had been looking for.
Truth be told, I had bought a President alto before, but it was in need of an overhaul and some body work. However, since I haven’t heard a Hohner alto in person, and didn’t know what it would sound or play like, spending $1,000 on the restoration work seemed like a lot of money on an unknown.
I decided instead that I would bide my time and wait until a really good one came up, that didn’t need much work, and that I could buy close to home.
When I saw Jaye had a couple for sale, I jumped on the chance to buy one. I lucked out, and got a killer little horn.
This two-tone alto is from 1962 (serial 114XX), and is for the most part in very good shape. It is missing its original end cap and round thumb screw that tightens the neck, but since I have a donor horn as it were, that won’t be a problem.
I’ll have my tech David look after the slight crease in the neck for me. I’ve said it before, but you should see what David can do with straightening out the crumpled bells of French horns. This little crease will be nothing for him.
It will also be interesting to see what the neck of my other alto will sound like with this horn. I know with my tenor, getting a second neck from David’s donor horn was amazing. The sound difference on the instrument is huge. Playing my tenor with the 2 different necks is like having 2 different saxophones. I’m curious if the differences will be as profound on this alto. Or perhaps it won’t sound good at all. Since my other alto is with David at the moment, I haven’t been able to try it out yet.
This little alto can sing very nicely. It’s intonation is what I expected, and the compensation is similar to what I have to do on my Toneking.
I haven’t yet played it against my main alto: a Conn 6M, so I can’t honestly compare the power and volume. Nor have I played it against my late-model Mark VI, which can be a real screamer when it needs to be.
However, I have to agree with Kumar’s comments about the build: the President does feel very small under the hands. The right palm keys especially, would be difficult to play if the player had large hands or fat fingers. Since my hands aren’t exactly tiny—I’m 5′ 9″ tall—I do find my right hand cramped. It will take me a while to get used to playing this little beastie.
Although this alto didn’t come in its original case, my other alto (serial # 48XX) did. The case is indeed small, and could easily be mistaken for something other than an alto saxophone.
Smallness aside, this is one tough little horn. It is built like a tank. There is no mistaking it for anything other than what it is: A high quality, German, professional model saxophone. Its core tone-centred sound, lets you know that what you’re hearing is a mid-century, German saxophone, quite possibly Keilwerth in origin.
Once David has all the school horns out of his shop in September, I’m going to take this little sax in and get it tweaked to just the way I like my horns set up. Until then, I’m going to get more familiar with this horn, and see what exactly it can do compared to my other altos. I suspect Kumar might be correct, and that it doesn’t have the same power as a Mark VI, or even more modern horns.
If you’d like to read more about Hohner President saxophones, check out the Hohner Page on my website. There you will also find a serial number chart for the President saxophones. If you’d like to read more about Max Keilwerth, the designer of these instruments, check out the page on my site that describes what he did before he worked for Hohner.
Recently I measured one old pad from a Hohner President tenor (41xx).
It gives an impression which pads have been used on these instruments and might be of interest when you have to look for alternative pads.
Inside is a felt disk thick of 4.0 mm thick and a diameter of 36 mm.
There is no paper or carton. Around the disk is an L profile metal ring.
The ring is cut of a 0.5 mm thick brass pipe. Height 3.2 mm inner diameter 36.7 mm. The top side is bent 90 degrees outward, which makes the contact area with the leather 1.1-1.2 mm and the outside diameter 39.0 mm. The outside diameter of the cup is 39.9 mm. The inner diameter of the cup is 38.5 mm.
Between the leather and felt there is a thin crumbled metal foil (leaf) <0.1 mm 34 mm in diameter. The leather is brownish, 0.13-0.17 mm thick and stitched with a white thread. The felt is not glued to the leather. The stitches hold everything together and stretch the leather over the metal ring. Probably made with a special horizontal sowing machine.
They look a lot like Conn reso pads with metal foil and without outward resonators.
Hey there Theo. Interesting. Do you have any photos?
I ended up giving this alto to my tech because I got a different one with any body damage. However, my 114XX alto will eventually need to get repadded. It would be nice to know what it had in originally.
My tenor still has all but 1 of its original pads. I knew that they had no resos, and I do find find the sound extremely dark. If I ever do get the horn repadded, I’m not sure what I would choose to put in it.
What I find interesting is just how different the alto and tenor Hohner Presidents are. The alto reminds me quite a bit of my Conn 6M in sound, while the tenor is a different animal altogether. I don’t have any frame of reference for it, since I have never played a tenor that sounds anything like it. I believe the original non-reso pads are big contributor to that sound.
That’s one of the things I really like about the sax though: It sounds so different from all my other tenors, and makes me rethink what a good tenor sax sound is. Personally, I’m so used to a particular range of sounds from tenor saxophones, and this one falls outside of that range. Players who have tried it, all fall in love with it, and more than 1 have wanted to buy it from me. Needless to say, I’m not tempted by offers to sell the horn.
Hi Helen,
I have also searched for comparable pads
and couldn’t find them. The Ferree res-o-pads are different.
That search continuous, at the moment DIY is the only option, so keep the rings of the pads when they are finished.
Now about the dark sound of the Hohner tenor.
My main tenor is a Hohner tenor (26xx). It is not my darkest sounding tenor, but it is versatile. It is dark enough to mix well with trombones and when necessary it can cut through the trumpets just like a 6M.
One difference with your Hohner tenor is in the neck.
On the picture of 2012 with three tenor necks made by Max it is visible that he moved the octave hole more than once.
I play on the 26xx where the hole is nearest to the mouthpiece. I guess that this also affects the darkness of the sound.
Wow, am I ever behind in my comment replies. 😳 Sorry about that Theo. It’s been a bit stressful around here lately.
Now, about this Hohner tenor neck issue… That is really interesting. You know, I don’t know why I never noticed this before. When I’m talking about changes over the Hohner President’s production run, that is a pretty significant difference. I wonder what moving the octave key vent would do to the brightness/darkness of the sound?
I can tell you my 104XXX tenor would never be able to cut through the trumpets like a 6M. Very interesting… I’m going make a note for myself to start looking at the tenors I have in my gallery, and see if I can figure out when this vent was moved.
BTW, I don’t know if you saw this or not, but there is currently a Hohner President tenor #21XX on the German eBay site. It has bevelled tone holes. This is only the 2nd Hohner I’ve seen with this type of tone holes. The first was alto #24XX.
Also stress on this side of the globe. We just had a day filled with concerts for the birthday of our king. Next week we have a day filled with concerts to celebrate our freedom.
Thanks for mentioning the Hohner 21xx. Interesting in this conversation of variations of the neck vent, is that its owner writes that the bell width of the Hohner President varies from 155 to 148 mm.
When checking this fact on my tenor saxophones I found:
President 51xx 150 mm
Hohner President from ebay ad 21xx 155 mm (measurement owner)
Hohner President 26xx 155 mm
Hohner President 41xx 150 mm
Hohner President 131xx 141 mm
So he is right that the Bell diameter changes.
But it is just one of the changes made during the lifetime of this model.
Now back to the discussion on brightness and darkness.
Your 104xx is your darkest tenor.
My darkest tenor is a Toneking 333xx and you can’t cut trumpets with it.
When I compare the neck with my 26xx I see the same difference in the position of the neck vent, so this is not only a Hohner variation.
I have seen this variation also in 6M’s and in King Zephyr Bari’s, so more saxophones have gone to the dark side,… where they can not cut trumpets.
The pads of the 333xx are all leather (with a ring). I do not know if there is metal foil inside the pads.
This puzzle of compromise called saxophone keeps me amazed.
After one year I found the most simple theory to describe the phenomena of the changing Hohner president.
Before 1970 the Hohner president was a niche saxophone for entertainment music.
Then The Yamaha took this niche by storm and sales dropped.
Hohner tried as a last resort to re-position the president in the classical niche market but failed.
Only a theory no supporting evidence at the moment.
This theory requires also some changes in the last alto’s.