Update: Compare/contrast 7 Orsi bass saxes

I was texting with a new bass sax buddy the other day, and he brought a couple of Orsi bass saxophones to my attention that are currently for sale on eBay. This jiggled my brain cells and had me remembering an article I wrote a couple of years ago where I compared 5 Orsi bass saxes.

Well it seems I need to update that article, since both of these currently-listed-bass-saxophones are quite different, and add a bit of further mystique to the Orsi bass saxophone saga. 

This time I’m going to do things a bit different and start with a chart that includes all the Orsi basses I have now seen to date. Afterwards we’ll take a bit of a deeper dive into what’s what with these rather mysterious Italian-made monsters of the deep.

Traits shared by all Orsi bass saxophones in this chart

A quick glance down this chart shows a variety of features. However all the horns shared these 2 things in common:

• They were all built in the same style as the JK and vintage American horns when it comes to what is known as their “wrap”. Where the neck is attached is quite a ways down from the upper bow of the horn, compared the “short”, AKA “French wrap” horns such as Selmer. This long wrap style is associated with a bigger bore, and generally bigger and fuller bass sound. Presumably Orsi bass saxes share these bore and tonal characteristics with their JK and American cousins. 
• The construction is post to body rather than ribbed or mini ribbed. Makes sense. A bass sax is heavy enough, and you don’t need the added weight that ribbing will add.

Orsi bass sax # 4269

Model: 119F

This model, 119F, was [presumably] made as a pro model horn. It, along with the other 119F (#3547) shown below, has among the most bells and whistles of any of Orsi’s bass saxes. 

However, where #s 4269 and 3547 differ most is in the palm keys. Whereas this horn has 3, and is keyed up to high F according to the previous owner, #3547 only has 2 right and left palm keys. Its range is also a bit unclear. More on that below.

Another trait that these 2 bass saxes from Orsi share, is that they are really only the only true modern ones of the lot based on their build—and even that is a bit of stretch if you look at the way the bell keys operate…. The 1940s called, they want their key design back. 😉

Orsi bass sax # 4248

Model: ?

Bass sax #4248 is a bit of a mystery on a number of fronts. 1. It has no apparent model name engraved or attached to it, and 2.Its features—or lack thereof—place it clearly in the non-pro category of saxophones produced by Orsi.

This horn is one of two that is currently on eBay. The seller is a music store in Italy, and sadly does not provide us with an English description. Since my Italian is lacking, I have had to rely on Google Translate to come up with this somewhat iffy description:

Description
Orsi bass sax Laccato serial number 4248 lab grave.

Accessories not included
• Custody

Note
The instrument has undergone the following interventions in our laboratory:
• COMPLETE replacement of felts, needles, bearings and corks;
• Mechanics adjustment and polishing;
• Internal and external washing with sanitized products;

* A functional test is carried out before shipment.

Laccato means lacquered. 

In case someone can read Italian, here is what the original eBay ad says:

Descrizione
Orsi sax basso Laccato matricola 4248 lab grave .

Accessori non inclusi
• Custodia

Note
Lo strumento è stato sottoposto ai seguenti interventi presso il nostro laboratorio:
• Sostituzione COMPLETA di feltri, aghi, cuscinetti e sugheri;
• Regolazione e lucidatura della meccanica;
• Lavaggio interno ed esterno con prodotti igienizzati;

* Prima della spedizione viene effettuato un test sul funzionamento.

Please let me know if you can improve on Google’s rather confusing description. I would love to know more about that Accessories description. 

In case you are interested, the horn is priced at €5,900, which eBay estimates to be approx. $7,143.43 US. 

Accessories aside, as noted above, what’s most notable about this bass are 3 things: 1. Its lack of model identification. 2. How its serial # falls between 2 modern, pro horns, and 3. Its rather bizarre collection of features that I have until now not seen on any Orsi saxophone before.

1. The seller does not name a model in the sale, nor could I find one in the photos of the engraving. I have no idea what model or model # Orsi would have given this horn, and since Orsi has a rather poor track record of replying to queries, I am not holding out hope that they would answer a question about this, or any, bass sax. 
2. This horn is serial #4248. It falls between the 2 pro horns 4269 and 3547. Presumably it was built in between these other 2 bass saxophones sometime. When? Don’t know. To the best of my knowledge there is not a published serial # chart of Orsi horns anywhere. And, as already stated, Orsi generally doesn’t respond to email communications. That said, any communications that have happened that I am aware of have been in English. Perhaps if a person could communicate with them in Italian they might actually get a response??? Just putting that out there to the universe… Any Italian sax players ever read my site???? Drop me a note please. Thank you…
3. When it comes to the features this horn has, check out the following oddities:
   1. Only 1 right palm key. What does it do? Not sure. Anyone want to take a stab at it?
   2. The left pinkie keys are straight from horns we saw in the 1880s. Here is my Buffet baritone from 1886 for you to compare it to. 

Orsi bass sax #3547

Model: 119F

This is the other modern, pro model in this series of bass saxophones by Orsi. Bass sax #3547 is also a 119F model, and was listed on eBay in September 2015 by the same music store that currently has the 2 Orsi basses for sale. At the time its range was described as:

…. discendende al Sib, ascendente al Fa#….

So it went from low Bb to high F#? I was never clear on the high F#. I still can’t see a high F# key on this horn. I’m not even sure about the key work for a high F on the upper bow, and a high F#? Where would it be? 

Here are a couple of other bass saxophones to compare it to: 1. A Jinyin stencil keyed to high F. 2. A Conn 14M keyed to high F. 3. Orsi 4269 that is also keyed to high F. 

When I wrote the original article about these horns, I wrote the following:

Orsi used a very different left palm key layout in this bass sax. This is very different than what we see in bass 4269 that was just on eBay.

I guessing that the high Eb key perhaps has two stages of opening, which could explain its shape? In stage 1 it acts like a normal D#/Eb key does. If the horizontal portion is pressed though, it might act like a high F lever. I’m just guessing here. If someone can come up with a better theory, or if someone has an Orsi bass like this, please leave a comment below. Thanks!

Still have no better explanation. Please leave a comment if you know for sure, or have any ideas. 

Orsi bass sax # 2935 

Model: Concertino

According to a vintage Orsi catalogue I was sent over a decade ago, the Concertino was a student model horn that Orsi built. Although the catalogue does not show a Concertino model bass, it is possible that Orsi offered at least 2 levels of saxophones at any given time.

Why is the possible? Because Orsi built instruments upon request, and offering 2 different models at 2 [presumably] different price points provided more selling options. 

Because of the lighting in the photos it is hard to say with 100% certainty if it’s lacquer or silver plate. Although when I first saw it I thought it was silver, since then I have a new monitor, and I realize it does have a more yellow tone. It doesn’t make sense that Orsi would silver plate a non-stencil, student model horn. I would say it’s most likely a clear lacquer, rather than a darker golden lacquer like we see on many horns. 

The finish however, is only one thing that is confusing about this Orsi bass. If we compare this bass saxophone’s features to the features we find the Orsi’s Normal line of student horns, we find the left pinkie cluster looks the same, and the range is similar. But then if we think about the vintage Buescher True Tone or Conn New Wonder bass saxophones, their features were not upgraded at the same rate as the other horns in the model series. So perhaps this Orsi Concertino makes sense then? 

Whatever the case, this Concertino in no way resembles Orsi bass model 119 that was shown in the catalogue I was sent. 

Orsi-stencilled Martelle bass sax # 2037

Model: 119 Improved

I wish the seller had provided better/more photos of this interesting Orsi bass saxophone. Its features appear to be consistent with the 119 Improved model bass saxophone from the vintage catalogue. 

To date it is the only 119 Improved model bass I have seen. Additionally, it is the only plated Orsi bass I have come across. 

Orsi-stencilled Metro bass sax # A4149

Model: ?

This poor beater of a bass appears to pre-date the undated vintage Orsi catalogue I was sent. However, its features are generally consistent with other older Orsi saxophones that occasionally pop up on eBay and the likes. 

To me this horn has always reminded me of the Conn New Wonder series. (The nail file G# will do that I think.) I have never been able to figure out why there are so many brass plugs that have been soldered into place. It’s almost like this horn had a run-in with a sadist. 😈 

Whatever its story, this old-timer is likely not as old as it appears, and by the looks of it, has had a lot of use. That said, to date it is the oldest Orsi bass sax that I have seen. (All 60+ images of this horn are available on Bassic Sax Pix.)

Orsi bass sax # ?

Model: Concertino

This is the other Orsi bass that is currently for sale on eBay. It is listed by the same Italian music store that currently has bass #4248 listed. And yes, they also had listed a number of the other ones shown in the article.

I am curious just how many Orsi bass saxophones there are in Italy. If this store ended up with this many for sale, I’d say a fair amount!

Since this horn’s ad is only written in Italian, I had to again rely on Google Translate for this: (Sorry ’bout that.)

Description
Orsi bass sax Concertino Lacquered nickel-plated keys

Accessories not included
• Custody

Note
The instrument has undergone the following interventions in our laboratory:
• COMPLETE replacement of felts, needles, bearings and corks;
• Mechanics adjustment and polishing;
• Internal and external washing with sanitized products;

* A functional test is carried out before shipment.

And the original Italian says:

Descrizione
Orsi sax basso Concertino Laccato chiavi nichelate

Accessori non inclusi
• Custodia

Note
Lo strumento è stato sottoposto ai seguenti interventi presso il nostro laboratorio:
• Sostituzione COMPLETA di feltri, aghi, cuscinetti e sugheri;
• Regolazione e lucidatura della meccanica;
• Lavaggio interno ed esterno con prodotti igienizzati;

* Prima della spedizione viene effettuato un test sul funzionamento.

The price for the horn is €4,920.00, which eBay estimates to be $5,956.89 US. This is of course quite a bit cheaper than than #4248 that is currently up for sale. (But then this sax only goes to low B.)

This un-serial numbered bass shares many of the same features as its Concertino # 2935 cousin. However, some features are indeed different. 

Major differences between the 2 Concertino bass saxophones shown here:

• Its finish is two-tone. This is also the first lacquer body with nickel plated key bass sax I have seen from Orsi.
• While both horns are only keyed to low B, this horn has it low B key on the right side. #2935 has its low B key on the left side of the bell. 
• The left pinkie cluster on this horn is old school and has 3 keys with 2 rollers. It is hard to make on the #2935, but it almost looks like it has no rollers for its 3 keys.
• This Concertino only has 2 strap rings, while #2935 has 3. 

So what is the take from all of this?

Orsi made a lot of different models and styles of bass saxophones over the years, and I must admit, I have not been keeping track of these horns. Had I not been speaking to Dan, I wouldn’t have even seen the 2 that currently up for sale.

This makes me wonder how many I have missed since I wrote my original article 2½ years ago. I suspect this store in Italy has sold a few that I didn’t even see. 

Given how relatively rare Orsi saxophones are in this part of the world, it’s not like we would have the opportunity to pop into a shop and try a bunch of these babies out when they come in. I would love to be able to try even just 1, and be able to compare it to my Buescher True Tone. 

Unfortunately Orsi saxophones do not have a great reputation among players. My experience is limited to a stencil of their Improved tenor. Yes, I used to think my LaMonte was a Conertino, but after studying my horn’s pics and comparing them to other Orsi horns and the catalogue images for what seems like hours, it clearly isn’t. The left pinkie cluster and left hand keys clearly indicate its Improved model status. 

Due to this limited experience with Orsi horns, I can’t draw any conclusions about their bass saxophones, since that would be the equivalent of drawing conclusions about a True Tone bass after only playing a True Tone tenor. It would be like comparing tomatoes to bananas. Both are fruits, but obviously they are about as far apart on the fruit spectrum as you can get. 😉

As for why a shop in Italy has so many Orsi bass saxophones in regularly, that is a very good question. This is the same shop that is currently also listing a new Orsi contra for €59,000—or about $71,900.35 US according to eBay.

Now where would Raffaele Inghilterra get a NEW Orsi contra from? I am guessing this is actually a display model, since to the best of my knowledge Orsi has stopped making saxophones altogether—not to mention that photo has been around almost since the dawn of the Millennium. The contra that’s for sale also appears to be in a display cabinet specifically built for it. This display cabinet is prominent on the store’s website and YouTube channel. 

If you look at Orsi’s website today, all you see are what appear to be Asian-made stencil horns. Or, maybe the rumour is wrong and Orsi still makes its own saxophones, and they just look like Asian-made stencils?

But getting back to the bigger horns, Raffaele Inghilterra seems to have quite a large selection of saxophones in stock. Maybe they are one of Italy’s larger music stores, and therefore attract those selling their horns? Just a thought. At this point my lack of Italian is seriously hindering any further serious research. 

If someone from Italy ever happens across this, I would so much appreciate if you would help me out. If you are familiar with the Raffaele Inghilterra store, or Orsi bass saxophones, please email me. Thank you.

In the meantime, we’ll continue to consider this a work in progress. As I made aware of more Orsi bass saxophones, I will further expand this chart.