Helen has a somewhat sizeable collection of vintage saxophones, and many of them them are quite obscure. If you would like to check them out, you can see them for yourself on her website.
If you have particularly unusual saxophone that you haven’t been able to find any information about, use the Contact page on this site and perhaps Helen can assist you in finding out more about it.
The photos on this page of the bari, and at the Arty Awards, were taken by Jason Brown, the owner Revival Arts Studio. I can say I knew Jason before he became über famous in the photography world! He was my pianist in the Bassic Sax Jazz Ensemble. If you are looking for a photographer who with an amazing eye, Jason is your man.
I’ve read a lot of discussions on various sax blogs & message boards regarding “the sound” of vintage saxes. I have always assumed that the distinct sound advantages of vintage saxes were due to the brass alloy mix. However, a friend recently proposed a very logical reason I had never heard before. He says brass crystalizes over time and that the saxes of today will sound better after years of this crystallization. This theory is also supported by the cyrogenic process of super-freezing brass instruments and the reported advantages of that process. I think freezing brass at extreme temperatures also crystallizes the brass. So don’t be disappointed in that modern “retro” sax…just play the heck out of it for a few decades.
I play a 1924 Conn New Wonder alto, silver plated and a 1930 vintage Conn tenor (stripped of its original silver by some dork in the 1930s). I love both horns.
Hi Bob. Welcome to my website.
Well your friend is very much on the money when it comes to his idea of the crystallization of brass. As a matter of fact, I wrote an article that mentions that very topic on November 13, 2008. In that article I quoted saxophone player, repair tech, and designer Steve Goodson when he wrote about why vintage horns sound different.
Steve wrote the following:
I know there are lots of people who may disagree with this theory, and will offer up lots of other explanations. And for some, just throwing the name Steve Goodson into the mix is enough to inflame them. Those are their problems. To me, this theory makes the most sense of everything that I’ve heard or read. It takes into account more variables than any other.
In the end though, we all have to play the saxes we own, so it comes down to a matter of personal choice. We have to like the sound we hear emanating from our horns. I too prefer the sound of the vintage horns over the modern ones. I would rather put up with less than perfect ergos, but get the sound, than have great ergos but a bland sound. (Something that modern saxophones seem to be able to produce in abundance.)
It sounds like you’re the same camp Bob. You have your 2 vintage Conns that you love, and they give you the sound that you’re looking for.
Thanks for the visit Bob. I hope that you drop in again some time.
Regards,
Helen
I have to give a counter-example, as I am not a big believer in the “material change” theory. In fact I’m not a big believer in material impacting the sound all that much. Can you detect a Grafton by listening to it? I sure can’t, and that’s about as different a saxophone as you’re going to find, materially speaking.
That’s not my counter-example though — the Aquilasax C-mel is. It is modeled off a 1926 Conn, but with modern ergonomics. This means some tone holes are in a different position (rotationally) on the tube but should still be the same size and same distance from the neck. I bought the horn and never really liked it because it had intonation problems and (more importantly) sounded like a Conn — that is to say, it sounded damn close to an alto.
I sold it at a considerable loss, and the guy I sold it to has put it up for sale again (I don’t know if he has actually sold it yet)… because it sounds just like the Conn he already has.
While this is just one anecdote, it seems to me that Aquilasax was successful (perhaps to its own detriment) in accurately reproducing the sound characteristics of a 1926 Conn C-mel.
I know where you’re coming from Mal-2, and I agree with you to a point. If I understand things correctly, it’s the saxophone’s conical bore that in part gives it its unique sound. That’s why the Grafton sounds like a sax, regardless of its material composition.
As far as your Aquilasax is concerned, since I haven’t heard one other than in home recordings, I can’t comment on it specifically, but I can say that of all the reproduction horns that I’ve heard in person, none sound as “good” to my ears as a good, pro vintage horn. There is a particular resonance that these old-timers have that is lacking in the horns of today.
I think you nailed it a while ago when you said the only way to settle this argument once and for all, would be to take a few new horns, record them, and then cryo-treat them. Then re-record them using the same players, same set-ups, same music, etc. If you had a big enough sampling, I think that might either prove or disprove this theory. I don’t know if Steve Goodson did this with his saxes. I suspect not, or else he would have the recordings posted somewhere. Maybe he does, and I just haven’t come across them.
However, I think we’re talking about subtle differences between the sound naturally produced by a conical bore, and (possible) sonic differences due to metal breaking in after being played for a decade or more. Perhaps it is not something that can be captured in all recording settings, or be heard by everyone. Perhaps it is something that players experience, or it’s even an unconscious perception that we translate into our ears.
this is another photo of the same horn.
Well I did some digging, and just as I suspected, the Temby is an Asian stencil saxophone. Whether or not it might be assembled in Australia with Taiwanese parts seems to be a matter of debate. There were surprisingly few threads on SOTW about the brand, and even more surprising is how few times the brand came up when you used the site’s search feature. I found very little about it written anywhere else, except for sales pitches of course. 😉
Owners of the brand report that there seem to be some real quality issues with the saxes (lacquer flaking off, premature key wear, etc), warranties not being honored, etc. Very few people chimed in with positive experiences with the brand. By far the negative comments out-weighed them.
Compared to other modern brands like the Yamaha and Cannonball, and even compared vintage horns, by far and away the general consensus was that these Temby stencil saxes were nice enough, but just didn’t measure up. They didn’t seem to float too many peoples’ boats.
When it came to price, there was no doubt in the minds of respondents that the prices were way too high for what you got for your money.
When it comes to getting information from SOTW, I take it with a grain of salt. However, I’ve been around the site long enough (I’ve been a member of SOTW since 1999) that I know who the regulars are, and who to trust. I’m always cautious when I read reviews by players that I don’t know, because I wonder if they’re younger, and don’t have much experience. In this case the regulars that I know from Australia didn’t chime in. I find that interesting. It tells me something too.
I don’t know if you live in Australia or not, but regardless of where you live, I would check into other options as well. There are A LOT of Taiwanese stencil horns out there that can be had for very little money. Many of them are very, very good. I’ve not played one, but respected woodwind repair technician, Stephen Howard, author of the new Haynes Saxophone Manual: Choosing, Setting Up and Maintaining a Saxophone, is quite impressed with the Bauhaus Walstein saxophones. (And BTW, he is not paid by the company to endorse them.)
The main thing is to do your homework, and if at all possible, to play-test before your buy. Anytime you buy a new horn it’s like buying a new car: Once you drive it off the lot it’s worth quite a bit less than it was before you bought it. Same holds true for saxophones. Once you’ve laid your money on the counter and walk out with the horn, it’s worth a lot less than before you bought it. I would want to make sure that I was really getting my money’s worth.
I wrote an article that you might find interesting. It’s called: What Makes A Saxophone A Professional Model? It includes a partial check list of what to look for when buying a new horn. It also includes ideas about mouthpieces and necks.
I hope this has been somewhat helpful. Check out the links I’ve given you. It should give you a place to start your research. Check back in once you’ve had a chance to digest some of what I’ve given you.
Regards,
Helen
Hello, i was wonder if you have much infomation on temby saxophones?
Hello Joseph. Welcome to my website.
I haven’t heard of that brand before. Do you have some photos that you could send me?
Off the top of my head I would say that it’s a stencil sax, and usually seeing some photos helps with identifying which manufacturer made the horn. For an idea of what kind of photos are helpful, check out this page on my website.
If you don’t have access to a camera, at least tell me some more about the sax. Is it vintage? Relatively modern? What country is it made in? Once I have a bit more information, it can be helpful in trying to trace its possible manufacturer.
Regards,
Helen
hey
its an australian brand the photo ive got is off google photos but it is the same horn (my camara lead is lost) its a modern horn its a professional model. is there any other infomation that would help?
I believe that is not a letter B, but a C clef:
http://www.music.vt.edu/musicdictionary/textc/cclef.html
This may or may not help you look up information on this instrument.
Hi. I recently purchased what seems to be a vintage alto saxophone but cannot find what brand it is. The only marking on the horn, besides the floral decor, is what looks to be the letter “B”. I have included a picture. Have you seen this marking before? And if so, what brand is it?
Hi Daniel. Welcome to my site.
I’m sorry it’s taken so long to get back to you. Mal-2 gave you some valuable information about the symbol on the bell of your sax. Did it help? What you are looking at is indeed a C clef, and not a letter of the alphabet.
In any event, what you have there is no doubt a stencil saxophone. A stencil of what, I couldn’t tell you without some clear photos of the horn itself. Take a look at this page of my website, and it will give you an idea of what information I need in order to help me ID your sax.
Once you’ve got some photos, it’s easiest if you send them to my gmail account.
Hope this helps.
Regards,
Helen
Hi, I am searching for information about to saxophones.
1.Tenor sax: Masterlido Josef Lidl. Brno /serial no: 3512
2.Alto sax: Benelux (made in holland) /serial no: 86467
I can’t find anything on the net. If you know anything about them would be very helpfull.
I found the story and webpage for Josef Lidl but nothing about saxophones.
Thank you.
Hi there Charis. Welcome to my website.
Well you have 2 very obscure saxophones there. I will need to do some research on them. Do you have any pictures? That would be very helpful. Take a quick look at my Want More Sax Info? page to get an idea of the kinds of photos that I use to do my research.
In the meantime, I’ll start looking around a bit already.
You can send the photos to my gmail account. This account allows for really large file sizes. My address is: bassic.sax.ca@gmail.com.
I look forward to getting some photos.
Best regards,
Helen
Hi, do you know where i can get a P.Mauriat pearl gold tenor sax from an american provider?
Hi Cj. Welcome to my site.
Well, I’m not sure where you got the “pearl gold” description from in relation to P. Mauriat, because that connection doesn’t exist… At least not that I could find. Pearl Gold is actually a model of Borgani saxophone, so that might have been why you had no luck tracking down a P. Mauriat with that name.
What you’re actually showing a picture of is the P. Mauriat PMXT-66RX – Influence tenor saxophone. You can read about it on the official P. Mauriat USA website. They also have a page which lists their dealers, so you might be able to find a dealer close to you so that you can play test a horn if you want.
If you’d like to see more pics of of the 66RX – Influence tenor, I suggest you check out this page on Saxquest’s site. (Which BTW, I see is where the picture you posted originated from.) Saxquest also sells this model of P. Mauriat… Or at least they did at some point in time. I’m not sure how often they update their site, since that page shows a copyright date of 2007. You might want to fire off an email to them and see if they have any in stock.
Oh, and if you’d like to read a review of a closely related P. Mauriat saxophone, Stephen Howard has written an excellent review of the 66R Custom Class. I suspect much of what he found will apply to the 66RX as well.
So, I hope this has been of some help to you.
Good luck in your search. Post back here again sometime, and let us know what you ended up doing…
Regards,
Helen
This is a link to a FAKE eBay posting. Johnny still has his horn and has not sold it. His address is NOT in Arboval, WV. I just thought I should let everyone know. There seems to be a lot of bass saxophone scams out there.
Please if you know of anyone that has been scammed or that you have been scammed, please post on this website. I will post more when I find out.
@ Helen – I will refer everyone I can to this website about these postings. You are doing a great job with providing sooo much information about each and every horn.
Thank you Helen.
Heh Chris, thanks for this info.
I did get an email about this horn from one of my regular readers who has been looking for a bass sax of and on for some time. Apparently he contacted the seller, and was offered the sax for $2300 including shipping. The potential buyer was very suspicious about the whole thing, and alerted eBay about his suspicions. Obviously eBay has not pulled the listing yet.
It seems that the owner of the sax should contact eBay, and notify them. Perhaps then they’ll shut down the auction.
I can’t believe the number of fake bass saxophone auctions that have been going on lately. You gotta’ ask yourself: Why? Since when did bass saxophones become that popular? Very strange indeed. I guess if there’s money to be made, someone will try to find a way to do it illegally.
Hello.
Love the site. Very helpful and informative. 🙂
I was wondering if you’ve ever heard of a “Roger” saxophone. It was my first baritone, I bought in the early 90’s. It says “Made in Germany” on the back above a serial number of 60-thousand-something. I can’t remember off the top of my noggin.
I was once told it could be a stencil of something else, but of what, no one could tell.
I’ve scoured the internet for years and never found a single thing about it.
Have a good one.
Az
Hi Az.
Welcome to my site.
Yes, I’ve heard the name before, but I can’t think of where at the moment. You don’t have a picture or 2 do you?
I’ll have to do a bit of digging around, but a picture will definitely help things along.
Let me know if you got any photos and then we’ll go from there.
Cheers…helen
PS: Check your email. I replied to your question with more of my own. 😯
Dear helen
I’d like know information about the brand called Orpheo Bass Sax. I’d like know where I can find It.. Have you hearing from ?
Thanks,
sincerely andre
Hello Andre. Welcome to my website.
The Orpheo bass saxophone, like all modern Asian-made bass saxophones that are fashioned after vintage American saxophones, are made by the JinYin company. I write about the 2 current Asian companies that manufacture bass saxophones in my blog post of August 22.
I don’t know where you can get an Orpheo bass saxophone now. It appears that all the dealers that were selling them a while ago, seem to have sold out finally. I did a Google search this morning, and didn’t find any Orpheo bass saxes for sale anywhere.
However, if you take a look at Part II of my article about the Hawk bass sax, I provide the link to the company’s website. These saxes were up for sale just a couple of weeks ago on eBay I believe, I just don’t remember who the seller was.
Don’t forget, all these saxophones (the Orpheo, Hawk, IW 601, etc) all were/are made by JinYin. So if you really want to buy a modern bass saxophone that is styled after the vintage American models, you don’t have to limit yourself to Orpheo. These bass saxes are all stencil horns, and they are all basically the same.
Hope this information has been somewhat helpful. If you haven’t yet done so, I’d suggest you check out the full series of articles on Asian-Made Modern Bass Sax Brand Names.
Regards,
Helen
I just noticed that Music Factory Direct (which appears to be connected to noteworthymusical) has a Orpheo Bass for sale for $3,995.00. The auction runs until December 21. There is no mention of how many instruments are available.
Hi..thanks for the response I will get some photo’s for you,as far as history on it …in 69 I lived in a little town names Kaufbeuren Germany I practiced for about a year there then never again then I dragged it around now for about 40 years and anyway time to clean house…it has a ram horn helmet and flowers carved in the front,but I’ll get you some photo’s and any help is great thanks again Ron
I got your photos. Thanks. I’m still not clear where the sax was made. What does it say? DDR? West Germany? Made in…
Also, I’m guessing it’s a tenor by the overall size, but I’m not 100% sure. Is it?
Hi Helen Yes it’s a tenor and no there is not any made in ? just number 43009 on sax and neck,but it sure looks like the one on your front page ! Thanks Ron
I have a old German tenor sax that says Music Barth but can’t figure out who made it…..Help !!
Hi Ron. Welcome to my site.
You know, it would really help out a lot if you could send me some pictures of your sax. Do you have access to a digital camera? If you could email me some photos, then I could see what kind of features this sax of yours has.
Off the top of my head, I can tell you that I haven’t heard of the name Music Barth, but that doesn’t mean much. There were, and are, so many stencil saxophones out there, that ID’ing them is oftentimes much easier when you can look at some photos.
Photos usually help us with things the shapes of keys, key guards, octave levers, etc. In short, features that saxophone manufacturers tended to carry over to many of their lines, often across many of the brands they stenciled as well.
Do you know roughly how old your sax is Ron? Does it say West Germany on it? DDR? Something else?
Send me some photos, also including some of the engraving giving the name & where it was made, and a bit more background on your horn, and I’ll do my best to do some digging to see if I can’t find out something about this mystery sax of yours.
Thanks for dropping in Ron. Be in touch.
Regards,
Helen
I’m glad to be of some help Doug. I’m also happy that you like my site. Thanks for the kind words.
I’ve sent you an email with contact info for a possible repair tech for your Reiffel & Husted slide sax. If it’s not in your In Box, check your spam folder, in case I got mistakenly ID’d as a spam-bot. (It’s been known to happen. :devil2: )
I’m in Lebanon, Missouri, USA. Love your site and REALLY appreciate your help! Thanks-
Thanks for the photos Dan.
I sent you an email with my detailed thoughts, but in a nutshell, it is a very unusual horn. Keyed only to low B: I’m suspecting it might be older, and that we could be looking at a high-pitch sax.
It’s too bad that most of the photos are so blurry that details are hard if not impossible to make out.
Prices in Europe for bass saxes seem to run a bit higher than here in North America. While the price might be OK there, it seems a tad high here, especially when you factor in shipping & taxes.
Also, the chances of being able to use a high-pitch horn (if that’s indeed what it is) with others in Europe are also greater. Here in North America you’d be destined to play by yourself, since in general there is no call for anything other than A=440 instruments.
Hi Doug. Welcome to my site.
You’re right about wanting to be careful of who to take it to. Let me make a couple of inquiries. I can think of 1 person in particular who is a tech himself, and collects rare saxes, who would most likely know who would be best to advise you on the horn.
One thing that would be helpful to know, is where abouts are you located? (Country & State/Province is close enough.)
Regards,
Helen
Hi Helen- I have a Reiffel & Husted slide sax s/n 11XX in need of repair. Not sure exactly what I have here so I didn’t want to take it to just anybody. Any suggestions? Is it worth fixing? Thanks, Doug B
Thanks, Helen. I forwarded you the pics that were sent to me today. Looks interesting
on my quest to find a bass, I was sent an e-mail from a guy in Italy selling a vintage Stovasser & Sconhe bass sax. I have never heard of this brand and can’t find anything on the search engine. Anyone know of such a brand?
I haven’t heard of this brand at all. I’ll do some checking for you Dan. Are you a member of the Bass Sax Co-op? If you are, post a query there. If you’re not, I’ll do it for you. In the meantime, I’ll send a note to some vintage sax savvy guys I know.
I’m wondering if it’s a stencil. If it is, I wonder who made it. Do you have more details on it? Country of origin? Did the guy send you any photos? These would help. They would help us ID the manufacturer. If it’s European and vintage, then we have a few manufacturers that could have made it.
One thing to be cautious about, is that if the horn is very old, that it might be a high pitch sax. That of course would not be useful at all if you wanted to play it with others. So the question would be: Is the sax a low pitch horn?
I just finished the post about the Henri Lavelle saxophones. Now we just have to wait and see what Orsi says about your model of horn James. Perhaps they have some insight.
Hi Marilin. Thanks for the photos of your Henri Lavelle tenor.
Your tenor looks is identical to my Orsi-stencilled La Monte. There is therefore no question about who made your saxophone.
I’m working on a post on all these Henry Lavelle horns, so I’ll include everything known to date in it.
Regards,
Helen
Nope, wasn’t me. I so rarely play tenor that I could not justify buying one right now.
So it seems someone jumped on the Henri Lavelle bandwagon. Mal-2…Was it you ❓
The Henry Lavelle tenor on eBay recently, linked to in my comment above, sold through the Buy It Now option. It shows $325, but who’s to say that’s what it actually sold for.
Dah… dahdahdah dah…………
The most likely makers are either Orsi or Rampone. I sent an email to Rampone & Cazzani this morning asking them about their vintage stencil brands. I’m crossing my fingers that they’ll be kind enough to answer.
I received a very interesting reply from Rampone & Cazzani about the Henri Lavelle saxophone. Claudio of R&C examined the photos of the horn currently on eBay, which BTW has a serial number only about 100 higher than that of yours James, and he said that for sure most of the parts came from the Orsi factory. However, he also said that some of the parts look like they may have been made by Rampone.
So while it is possible that the horn is an Orsi stencil, he believes that it is possible that the sax was made in a smaller factory with parts made by both Rampone & Orsi. His overall impression of the Henri Lavelle was that it was a very strange saxophone. In order to be sure of its pedigree, he would have to see it in person.
I’ll shoot off an email to Orsi as well to see what they say about the sax.
I should mention that I also asked Claudio to look at my Gallotone tenor, because it shares a number of the features with the Henri Lavelle, eg: the shape of the octave key lever. His comments about my Gallotone were identical to those he wrote about the Henri Lavelle.
So it seems we have ourselves 2 mysterious horns here. Perhaps Orsi will be able to solve the mystery. :scratch: