Helen has a somewhat sizeable collection of vintage saxophones, and many of them them are quite obscure. If you would like to check them out, you can see them for yourself on her website.
If you have particularly unusual saxophone that you haven’t been able to find any information about, use the Contact page on this site and perhaps Helen can assist you in finding out more about it.
The photos on this page of the bari, and at the Arty Awards, were taken by Jason Brown, the owner Revival Arts Studio. I can say I knew Jason before he became über famous in the photography world! He was my pianist in the Bassic Sax Jazz Ensemble. If you are looking for a photographer who with an amazing eye, Jason is your man.
Hello . I’m from Brazil and my good is not English. Recently I bought a soprano sax of BESSON & CO .Entrei contact a museum in London and they told me it might be 1916. But not find anything about this instrument. Anyone have any information ?
:cheers: hey I have a 1950s dolnet alto Paris series 2 or early bel air. Silver plate . All original with hard Case and new soft case.extra mouth accessories and such. I will atach pic. Wondering what item is all about and value.
Sax??????
Yes, it’s a saxophone. What more would you like to know? I would need to see more photos to be positive, but it has features that Pierret put on their horns. The bell is also very short. Is it only keyed to low B, instead of low B? By its dimensions, I’m guessing it is an alto.
If you want to send me some more photos to my email, I will be glad to answer the questions you have about your saxophone. You can send your email and photos to me at: bassic.sax.ca@gmail.com
Low B indeed, no alternate F#, wraparound G#. I’m almost afraid to see what’s under the left hand — two octave keys, no bis key, and no 1+1 Bb either, I would guess. If it had puffy white or red pads I’d be inclined to venture that it might be a Saxophone Shaped Object, but since it looks like it has real pads on it, it seems someone actually used it as a musical instrument.
Perfecktone, by Conn
Not much known, it’s a Stencil
#51155 On it’s way to our house …in the mail.
A little visual history, hope you like it?
Did you get the sax yet? What do you think?
I did receive the horn, dirty, but in really good shape. It needs pads and a good washing, seems to have a washed bell, gold tone and is thickly constructed. I have a 206XXX Conn to compare and now think its neck is not correct, having a much thinner material thickness. Having fun attempting to play the darn thing. I’ll be saving up my money because it seems its time to service all my horns… why do they go at the same time?
Two King Super 20’s,394XXX,466XXX
Conn alto, 206XXX
Perfectone
Evette Schaeffer 208XX, this horn plays very nicely, good sound too.
Thanks for the advice and interest in old horns :saxplayer: :saxplayer:
Sorry about the time lags in my comment replies. As usual, I’m so far behind I seem to be lapping myself. 😉
The picture you attached is so small that it’s hard to make out details, but if it is a Conn stencil, then in all likelihood it was made on the Pan American side of the factory. Shame about the neck though. That said, if it plays in tune, and sounds good, then you’re still OK.
Yah, I know what you mean about all your horns going at the same time! With as many as I have, I could be at my techs almost every other week.
My Mark VI bari is due for an overhaul, but I’m making it work as is because I don’t want to fork out the $ for it ATM. I just dropped $60 for adjustments on my Zeph tenor, Mark VI soprano & bari because I’m using them in a musical right now. I need to take my Committee III bari in for adjustments, and let’s not even talk about Medusa bari. That poor thing needs an adjustment in the worst way. There’s always something. Oh, and then there’s the cost of reeds… Yikes!
Too bad our rate of pay doesn’t go up to cover the costs of our expenses. In the 70s, and even the 80s, it would have. Today… Not so much….
Hi Helen,
Here is a stencil unknown to me; Hartini Luxus. Looks like an Akustic, but is different:
http://www.ebay.de/itm/HARTINI-LUXUS-Altes-vintage-Sax-Saxophon-versilbert-fur-Liebhaber-/351556604688?hash=item51da681310:g:qB4AAOSwl9BWJ5je
Hi Theo.
Thanks for this! Actually, look at the left pinkie cluster. It looks like what we saw in the Eugen Schuster and Wolfram horns. My guess is that it is a stencil of one of those.
After looking through all the images in my computer that I haven’t yet had a chance to upload to my gallery, here are my thoughts: Based on the right-sided bell keys, and the shape of the wire key guards, my money would be that it is a Wolfram horn.
Hi Helen,
This Hartini has some black horse properties and I still hesitate to put my money on Wolfram. The shape of the G# key is different. It looks like the left pinky cluster of ROA. The unique shape of the F# thrill key is again different from ROA or anything. I have to drink some extra coffee on it.
:toast: :cheers: (no coffee emoticon)
The name of the instrument is probably Martini Luxus. Only a hand full of hits on the net on this saxophone brand. No serial numbers, dark sounding.
A real dark horse. :2cents:
Interesting horn, with a number of interested bidders. It sold for EUR 135,00, and 25 bids. A wall decoration perhaps?
The neck brace reminds of a Weltklang, but you’re right, it’s different. I don’t know what to make of it. Odd instrument. Yet another mystery horn with Conn 10M-like pinkie cluster…
Helen,
Martini (Luxus) was next to Amethyst and Non Plus Ultra a brand of Martin Reiner. He handcrafted saxophones between ~1949 and ~1956 in Markneukirchen. One of the tiny sax-workshops in the former “Musikwinkel”. Very rare and un-known.
Cheers, Tobi.
Hi Tobi. Welcome to my website.
Thank you so much for that information. I have an Amethyst tenor in my gallery of images that I haven’t uploaded yet, simply because I haven’t figured out what it is. It looks like a B&S stencil, sort of, but isn’t. There are enough things different about it that indicate that it wasn’t made by B&S. However, what you say about it being from the Musikwinkel makes sense. Now that I have Martin Reiner’s name, I have a place to start. Thank you!!
Hi Helen,
one more for you:
There is currently a great exhibition in Markneukirchen at the Museum for Musical Instruments called “100 saxophones from German-speaking area”. The opening ceremony took place on 21 MAY 2016. The last day will be the 31 OCT 2016. I highly recommend this exhibition for all saxophone enthousiasts – I heard very positive news about this. Nevertheless – I still need to visit. Coming soon….
Here is the web-site (unfortunately only in German language):
http://museum-markneukirchen.de/start.html
Cheers, Tobi.
My vintage alto sax needs some history c Fischer national serial 9834 low pitch A with the duet case thank you
Hi there. Welcome to my website.
Well I can tell you a few things about it:
1. It’s what’s called a stencil horn. (A horn made by a well known saxophone maker for another company.) But I can’t tell you who made it without seeing seeing photos of it.
2. Stencil horns don’t follow the same #’ing conventions that brand name horns do—unless they’re European. (See above link for a full explanation.)
3. I’ve seen C. Fischer horns made both by American and French companies.
4. If you’d like me to take a stab at ID’ing your horn check out this page of my website. It explains what kind of photos allow you to help you best. The email to the send pics to is also on that page.
Regards…helen
Hi Helen,
I have tried to find info on this soprano sax I have, but no luck whatsoever so far, so I wondered if you would have any idea of it’s manufacturing year, ever roughly, and estimated value perhaps.
The engravings on this one are “Metro” on the logo, and Made in Italy, the Serial Number is 11203.
Any help muchly appreciated, thanks!
Hello Armand. Sorry I’m so far behind in replying to comments. I was in the hospital.
The only Metro-branded saxophone that I have come across that was made in Italy was an Orsi-made bass. That said, Orsi generally used a letter along with the the number in its serial # conventions.
It is really hard to say anything definite about your horn based on one photo. If you’d like to send me more photos, I’d be happy to try and help to ID your horn. Please see this page on my website for the types of photos that allow me to help you best!
Need some help. I have a silver b & s soprano sax. Serial no 5xxx. Looking for info on the piece as well as what it’s worth. Any help would be appreciated.
Hi Joe.
Sorry about the delay in answering, my website was in a state of transition as it moved from server to server. I couldn’t really answer any questions until it was up and running again.
As far as information on your B&S soprano goes, have you checked out my page on the horns on my website? That is really the definitive page that will give you everything I know about these East German-made horns.
As far as the instrument’s value goes, check out this page on my website. It will give you a way to estimate your sax’s worth.
Hope this helps…helen
i have an old sax with Engraving: Medaille D’ OR 1900, Adolphe SAX, Feur de l’Académie Nle de musique, 84. RUE MYRHA, Paris, Made in France, 14818. please give us an update on this sax.
Hello sinlo. Welcome to my website.
I’m sorry I’ve taken so long to reply to your question. My website was being moved, and I couldn’t really answer any questions until the move was complete.
In order to answer any questions about your saxophone I would need to see some photos of your saxophone. Please check out this page of my website. It explains what kinds of photos allow me to help you best.
Rare saxophones keep popping up.
Here is a Tenor Saxophon Gebr. Mönnig Diamant “Grand Prix” very well made with an eye for detail.
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Wunderschones-Vintage-Tenor-Saxophon-Monnig-Diamant-Grand-Prix-/301652819309?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_77&hash=item463be8bd6d
The Mönnig saxophone has extreme large tone holes and small key actions.
It is a concept that is almost extinct, also used by Malerne and Orsi.
These saxophone are more sensitive to the type of pads and reflectors used.
The pad on the low Bflat looks a bit odd, it takes up a large part of the key action.
I wanted to thank you for that link Theo. I noticed today that the horn sold for best offer—meaning that the EU700 price tag wasn’t met. Strange… but then the economy has gone to hell in Europe as well.
Just an interesting side note, this same sax was likely for sale before. I have one in my saved images—I just haven’t had a chance to update my Gebr. Mönnig gallery yet—that is a tenor Diamant #3183 M 1940. It appears to be the identical horn with the same accessories. It was for sale on eBay from a music store in Munich in November 2014.
In the next few days I’ll start working on my gallery updates. I’m going to work on the German horns first. I just need to check out and update the software in my other websites to make sure that they are all working fine.
Just got my new/old baby
Hi there Sam. Welcome to my site.
Tell us something about your new bass. It looks like it might be a Conn of some stripe. Or is it a stencil?
Oh, and did someone add a bis Bb key to that, or if I’m not mistaken, is that a high F key? Do you have yourself a rare 14M, keyed to high F there?
Hi Helen,
Something not very rare, but rare enough, it is the first I have seen:
A Werner Roth bari to low A.
http://www.ebay.de/itm/sehr-altes-Baritosaxophon-von-Werner-Roth-Breitenfeld-Migma-zum-Herrichten-/331379986815?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_77&hash=item4d27c9517f&autorefresh=true
Nice keyguard details, designed as a low A, with some damage.
enjoy
I’d say it’s pretty rare Theo. I’ve never seen a Werner Roth bari before. Interesting. Thanks!
Hi Helen,
Another Roth bari, this one engraved Ferol Roth.
Horn-u-Copia points this engraving to Ferdinand Roth who worked in Milan until 1898.
So this beasty is old, but looks agreable for its age.
The location of the octave keys looks odd.
I guess this one is more than pretty rare, have fun.
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Baritone-Saxophon-Sax-baritono-Premiata-Fabbrica-Ferol-Roth-Milano-26/201320232642?_trksid=p2045573.c100033.m2042&_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D29667%26meid%3D139be1a7c1d9489db6e43fb0e518c26a%26pid%3D100033%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D201320232642
Thanks Theo!
I’m sorry I’m so behind on my comment replies. I wrote a long and involved one to you a few days ago, and just before publishing it I stupidly hit the back button on my mouse, and “poof”, it vanished into cyberspace. I couldn’t retrieve it no matter how hard I tried. I was so discouraged. It had taken me quite some time to research all the links… :pissed:
I’m going to try and catch up in the next few days.
Back to your comment about the antique bari. This Roth bari is very interesting. I love the (apparently) attached goose neck. Very interesting. I wonder how it would play? I also wonder about its pitch. Since it’s from Italy, I’m not familiar enough with what was common with regards to tuning. What are the chances it could be played with modern instruments? In any event, it is a very interesting horn!
Oh, and as an aside, I’m wondering if Ferdinand Roth and Ferol Roth are one and the same person. I found the same link you did, but haven’t had the chance to dig around any more.
Hi Helen,
There is no hurry when it involves saxophones made long ago.
On the pitch of this odd bari:
In 1881 there was a musical congress at the world convention in Milan.
Pitch was standarized at A=432Hz. Roth advertized saxophones from 1994.
So my guess is 432 Hz.
The auction ended with a price of 655 euro.
But the sale was not finalized.
Today the Ferol Roth bari reapeared for a fixed price of 650 euro.
After reading the inscription I think it reads Ferd instead of Ferol.
And Ferdinand Roth advertised saxophones from 1894, not 1994. :devil2:
Hi Helen, this time there is a
Rene Guenot bassaxophone on ebay:
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Bass-Sax-Rene-Guenot-Paris-incl-Gig-Bag-satter-Sound-/291290935678?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_77&hash=item43d24af17e
Low pitch, around 1900, with a shiny crook (new crook?).
Interesting Theo. Thanks! I hadn’t seen a French-made horn that was styled like an American one before.
There are so many of these vintage brands popping up all over that we had never seen before, that it is quite mind-boggling. Despite our instrument being less than 200 years old, so much of the history has already been lost.
I’ll have to do some research on the Rene Guenot brand. I know I have read about them before, but I can’t think of any of their history ATM.
Guenot is a nice example of a dark horse.
Compared to the 1935 tenor of Saximus the pinky table is more advanced.
I guess it is not from 1900 but 1935+.
Hello
I have a Karl Meyer tenor sax serial No D7735 and it is in a Frank Holton & Co Elkhorn. Wis. Case
Is this a mismatch and roughly how old in the saxophone and approx. value.
Many thanks
Dave
Hello Dave. Welcome to my site.
Yes, the case is a mismatch. The original case is no longer with the horn, as was replaced by someone along the way with one from a Holton saxophone.
Without seeing photos of your horn I can’t say with 100% certainty (only with 99% 😉 ) but based on the instrument’s serial #, the Karl Meyer you have was most likely made by Orsi. Compare your sax to the Karl Meyer saxes in my gallery, to the Orsi gallery in general, as well as the rest of Orsi-stencilled saxes that are close in to yours in serial #. Does yours look the same?
If it does, and you have a Karl Meyer made by Orsi, then it very close in serial # to my La Monte tenor. I was told by the previous owner—when I got the sax way back in the late 1970s—that it was from the 1960s.
Sadly there is no way to confirm this, since Orsi has never published a serial # listing, nor do they reportedly reply to requests for information on dates about their previously-manufactured saxophones.
So there you have it Dave. That’s all I can give you for information. A few facts, and some speculation, but no actual confirmation about dates.
I hope this has been somewhat helpful, and has provided you with at least some of the answers you’re looking for.
If you’d like to ask me anything more specific after looking the variety of horns on my website, feel free to ask.
Regards,
Helen
Foetisch Frères is a music store in Lausanne from 1865 to 1976.
On Ebay for sale is a rare pig tailed tenor named Sonora with an inscription of this store. Its top key is Eflat and has no Fsharp thrill key.
That is definitely an odd bird. (Not as odd as that pelican/sax hybrid you found and uploaded the other day, but nearly as odd.) :devil1:
Thanks for that find Theo. Very strange indeed. The seller updated the auction to say it’s not a tenor, but rather a baritone in F, since the stamping on the bell is not a “T”, but rather an “F”. Actually, it’s neither. To me it looks like 2 F’s that are back to back, in a stylized version logo of some sort depicting the first letters of the Foetisch Frères name.
An F-pitched baritone has never been seen—just ask Pete Hales about that. 😉 Also, the neck looks rather small. I do have a high pitch baritone, and it is considerably shorter than the LP baris, so I will just have to go downstairs into my studio and measure the two horns and see what I come up with.
What looks really strange is the short neck on the instrument. My Evette & Schaeffer HP bari has a much longer neck, which is why at first blush I can believe this might be a tenor. The length of the horn should tell us for sure though.
Well, the measurements do tell us something… But not what I expected them to. I did a quick (and likely somewhat imprecise) measurement of both my Mark VI baritone and my Evette & Schaeffer. Here are their lengths measured while laying in their cases. This is a measurement of the right side of the horn from the top of the upper bow to the bottom of the lower bow. Selmer: 103cm (40 1/2″). Evette & Schaeffer: 96.5cm (38″).
Since we don’t know how the seller measured the horn on eBay currently, we can’t say for sure how it lines up with what I just found out about my 2 baritones. However, given he claims the horn is just over 100cm, I would hazard a guess that this sax is closer to our modern pitched horns, than the HP bari I have.
After a second glance it looks more like a baritone. The lowest note is B, no spit valve and the neck and body are one piece. Just like the NMM 5764. Baritone saxophone in E-flat by Adolphe Sax, Paris, 1878 kept in the National Music Museum.
http://orgs.usd.edu/nmm/Saxophone/AdolpheSax/5764baritone/5764SaxBaritone.html
The height of this instrument is 100,9 cm, but it is high pitch. At low pitch it would become 104,8 cm, which is near to the measured 105 cm. So low pitch Eflat sounds reasonable, but a direct measurement of the pitch would be more reliable.
You are right about the neck Helen, it looks a bit short. The distance between the first octave key and the mouthpiece is also very small for a baritone.
Hi Helen
Since last year I’ve been the happy owner of the Pennsylvania (Selmer London ) tenor serial no 6276 that featured in the ‘Manufacturer Mystery Solved’ feature you did 26 February 2013. I bought it via Ebay, but by then it had been parted from its carrying case and original guarantee card as photographed. But – thanks to your excellent website – the information is, as it were, re-attached to the horn and I can find out more about it. Like how old it is – a question that never got answered (I’m an archaeologist, I want to know). Any ideas on that? 60s?
Keep up the good work
Nigelb
Shropshire England
Hello Nigel.
Welcome to my site.
Unfortunately there are no published serial number charts for Borgani saxophones. I also haven’t seen any that have been developed by Borg players on any of the sax discussion boards that I frequent.
I don’t know if the company still has records, or if they will reply to emails, but you could drop them a note and see if they might be able to answer your question.
Sorry I wasn’t able to be of more help. Please do drop in again and let me know if the company replied to your email. It would be helpful to know if they are open to replying about their old horns.
Regards,
Helen
Hi Helen, could you like to write me something about altsax on photos? It belonged to my father. It was made, may be, about 1930 – 1940. Its name is “CAESAR, PURE TONE Trade mark 5689” Thank you.
Hello Augustin.
Well I have only the 1 photo you have attached that I can base this on, but it looks a lot like the bell of the saxophones made by Max Keilwerth. Look at the galleries of Max Keilwerth horns on my Bassic Sax Pix website, and tell me, does your alto look like these?
The other clue that you give me is that the sax says Pure Tone Trade Mark. Does the sax carry a stamping that looks like this?
Max Keilwerth stamped Pure Tone Trade Mark on all of his horns—including all the saxophones he stencilled for companies that ordered from him. Although I have never seen or heard of a saxophone stamped with the name Caeser, based on the 1 photo, and the Pure Tone Trade Mark stamping, at this point I assume that this was a saxophone built by Max Keilwerth when he was working independently in Graslitz, before moving to Germany and working for Hohner. If you would like to read about Max Keilwerth, I have a page about him on my website.
If you are willing to share some photos of this Caesar alto saxophone, I would very much like to feature them in my Max Keilwerth gallery. You could send any photos you have to me at my gmail address. It is: bassic.sax.ca@gmail.com
I hope this answers some of your questions Augustin. If you would like to know more, please ask.
Warm regards,
Helen
hello Augustin,
i am interested in this saks, is this Caesar saksofon possibly for sale?
Danke.
I am sorry. This sax is not for sale.
thank you for your response.
hello augustin,
just thought i’d try again, would you be interested in selling the Caesar sax?
thanks.
Hiya, I was wondering if you could help. I have a saxophone which is painted with a floral background. And has no serial number. .. just says southstar on it?? I would love to know more about it and its history and its value as I am hoping to sell it at some point. I will send a pic x
Sad to say, that’s probably just another mass-produced Chinese horn of no special value.
I agree with Mal-2. Your horn was most likely made in a factory somewhere in either China or Taiwan that makes a lot of horns for many different companies.
I Googled Southstar saxophone, but came up with no references. This tells me that whoever “they” are, they most likely didn’t order a lot of saxes, since no one else seems to be asking or commenting about the brand. Strange.
As far as the painted finish goes, there was (is?) a company called Greatmind Saxophones, that sold saxophones with a wide variety of painted finishes. It appears that the last time that their website was updated was in 2008, but check out their sample finishes going back to 2004. I didn’t see anything there that looked exactly like yours, but it’s possible that the supplier of their saxophones is the same as the one that supplied Southstar with yours.
At first blush your sax does resemble the Greatmind Saxophones, but then most stencil saxophones coming from Asia currently are all Selmer knock-offs.
I hope you’re not looking for any great $ value out of it, because it is most likely not going to bring you much. I would suggest you take it to a tech and get his/her opinion of its value. I have a page on my website that might help you (don’t let the word in the title “vintage” through you off, you can still follow the steps on the page) but you would have to search eBay for other used, no-name Asian horns.
A lot of its value is going to come down to its condition, build quality, and playability. That’s why I would recommend a tech’s advice.
Hi.
I have an Ferdinand Roth Alto saxophone,
And I suspect that is produced between 1880-1898’s,
but don’t know how to check it to be sure.
there is written on it : ” Premiata Fabbrica Ferd. Roth Milano 619 ”
the only thing i know about it its that this manufacturer changed the name
of company to Roth&Bottali in 1898. and later in Brevetto Bottali.
Does it mean something ,can the manufacturing year be determined by this ?
At the moment don’t have picture but will send it later on if necessary .
Thanks and regards.
Hello. Thanks for dropping my site.
I have been very ill lately, which is why I am so behind in answering your question. This is also why I haven’t had the chance to do any digging into the past of the Roth company. I have only seen 1 Roth saxophone, but I’m not sure if the owner knows anything about it. The owner and I regularly exchange emails. I can ask him if he knows something about his old horn.
I did not know of the name changes you mention. If I’m not mistaken, the alto Rothophone that I saw a few years ago, was a Bottali.
I’ll do some checking and see if I can find out something.
Is it safe to assume that your Roth alto sax looks similar to the one in my gallery? It must have 2 octave keys, and very simple key work, and keyed only from low B to high F (or maybe even only high Eb.)
I’ll let you know of anything that I find out. In the meantime, if you can post a photo or two here that could be helpful. You can upload up to 3 per comment.
Hi!
Hope you are well now.
First of all thank you for your reply.
I am not so familiar with it so I can’t tell if there are 2 whole octaves . But yes it is similar. The most interesting details I think are the lift sistem (for first hole on the neck) and on the bottom ,the last 3 holes ,they are positioned different than on any sax I saw. Please take a look on photos.
Thanks and regards.
Loran
Hi.
first of all thank you for your reply.
I hope you are well now.
The sax looks same as the one you mention
( http://bassic-sax.info/4images/details.php?image_id=2757)
Only the engraved logo is a little bit different it has an ornaments around the text.
the most specific details i think are the top lift for first hole on the neck and position of 3+1 holes on the bottom,because i didn’t saw any sax with such hole position.
please take a look on to pictures.
Regards.
Loran
Thanks.
Hope you are ok now.
i have had difficulty to reply,and upload photo.
the sax is the same you mention.just it’s not in that finish,and the logo is a bit different.
If you leave me your email will send you few photos.
thanks and regards.
Loran.
Email sent. I’m slow, but not quite dead.
hi
i have jk pennsylvania tenor special serial no 17863 made in czech
its from the 1930-1940
its overall like a new
he have a good sound and play very well
what you can tell me about this saxophone tenor
i think its very rare
Hi Joseph. Welcome to my site.
Well first up, I should tell you that in general, the Pennsylvania Special saxophones were not made by JK but by Kohlert. I do mention this in a comment for the article on this Pennsylvania Special alto, but I really do need change the article’s title & content… OK, now that I’ve done that… I can carry on…
When I took a careful look at the photo you attached Joseph, what I immediately noticed a few things that were different from the Kohlert-made Pennsylvania Special altos and baritones that I have seen. 1. Your tenor does not have the full pearl treatment—meaning that it doesn’t have mother of pearl key touches on all the side and pinkie keys. 2. Your tenor’s low C mechanism, and right pinkie keys, are not the usual shape we see in these Kohlert-made Pennsylvania Specials, but rather the shape of keys we see in J. Keilwerth horns. 3. The serial # you have is a 5 digit one, not a 6 digit one. This too fits into the JK serial # chart, and not the Kohlert chart.
After just getting my site’s mistaken information about the Pennsylvania Special horn’s connection to JK corrected, I am loath to stir the pot again and suggest that your horn was made by JK, but I’m starting to think that Selmer US did indeed contract with both Kohlert & JK for the supply of these instruments. Or, perhaps Kohlert couldn’t supply all the necessary horns, so they awarded a subcontract to JK. We know that there were a lot of connections between Kohlert and J. Keilwerth back when the companies were both in Graslitz. Perhaps these horns are an example of such a connection?
What’s interesting is that there are 2 types of Pennsylvania Special tenors that have so far been documented. Besides yours, this saxophone review website also has the same “plainer” tenor on it. It seems that the website owner also happens to own the tenor in question, but that the horn needs an overhaul. Both your and his horns have the same low C key shape and mechanisms, and a 5 digit serial number. Note he says his horn was made by Kohlert. As we discussed, this statement is consistent with other Pennsylvania Special horns. However, personally, I’m not so so convinced. Even the octave mechanism on the Pennsylvania Special tenor from the saximax.com site, looks an awful lot like the JK Toneking 16XXX one.
The 2nd type of Pennsylvania Special tenor that I’ve seen is in my Bassic Sax Pix gallery, and does indeed appear to be made by Kohlert. Unfortunately the seller gave no serial #, but the rest of the features (the MOP key touches, the low C key shape & mechanism) are all consistent with a Kohlert-made horn.
So by now you’re likely asking yourself: So what does this mean for my horn?
Well you’re right Joseph, your horn is likely quite rare. I have only seen 1 or 2 of the tenor versions of the Pennsylvania Special horns that Selmer USA ordered. What you have there, IMO anyway, is a vintage JK horn. I’m not surprised that it plays really well. JK knew how to make saxophones. Their horns have stood the test of time, and are among the best built, and nicest vintage saxophones available today. IMHO, of course. 😉
OK Sax-thusiasts. I am trying to get my 16 year old a decent sax. Is this one good ( Sax Pan American Tenor Saxophone Lacquer ) ? If you definitely tell me to avoid it I will. I found one 2 hundred and seems reasonable but I know as much about sax’s as I do fashion ( if you get my drift ). Thanks !
Have you ever gotten a mechanically inclined friend to come along when you were thinking of buying a used car? The same advice serves here. If you can get someone who plays the instrument — not necessarily someone who plays at a professional level, but someone with experience with both good instruments and bad — to give it a look and (hopefully) a play before buying, you stand a much better chance of getting something solid the first time around.
As for the instrument you refer to, I assume it’s new because you didn’t link to an auction or anything and I don’t recognize the brand. Straight out, any new instrument at that price level is going to have problems. They may not be insurmountable, but do you really want to have to send the new horn out to be worked on before you even know if your son is going to like it? I’ve bought a brand new Chinese horn before, and that was after play-testing it fairly extensively and making friends with the importer. (Hell, he offered me a job after I finished adjusting the crap out of a couple of his sopranos.) Even so, it showed some unexpected issues over the first year of ownership, things like having one of the key pearls fall out and vanish the night of a gig.
Overall, for a given amount of money, you’re likely to have a better time with a locally-purchased instrument than one ordered sight unseen. And just like cars, lightly used instruments can be picked up at a considerable mark-down compared to new ones. The second-best sax purchase I have made was when I went to a music store and played through about a dozen different low-end horns (though they came from Taiwan back then, not mainland China) until I found a good one. This turned out to be an instrument that had been rented out for the better part of a year. It’s still my go-to alto, 22 years later. I even like it enough to have gotten a second horn of the same make and model for backup purposes.
The BEST sax purchase I’ve made (which WAS one of those blind purchases I’m telling you to avoid) has to be the 1919 Buescher True Tone C-melody. Even there, I had to buy a second horn and swap the necks before I got it right, so the route I took toward the second-best is a much safer bet.
Hi there Ron. Welcome to my site.
+1 to what Mal-2 wrote about taking someone along with you when you try out a saxophone.
I’m wondering if what you are describing is a used/vintage instrument? I’m wondering if it isn’t a Pan American tenor made by Conn. Are you thinking of buying it online? Buying it in person? Do you have a photo you can upload?
Regardless, another +1 for Mal-2’s comment about any $200 saxophone is going to need repair. It’s like buying a cheap car, you know you’re going to have to spend money getting it fixed before you can drive it. Same goes for saxophones.
Saxophones are complex machines with over 400 parts. These parts, like car parts, are prone to wear and tear, and need to be maintained, and need to be serviced regularly in order for the horn to be playable. On older horns pads are often worn out and need replacing, parts can be loose, or even missing, etc. That’s why having a player along, or having it checked by a tech, is a good idea before buying it.
Since you are not a sax player, I would +1 another one of Mal-2’s suggestions, and recommend that you buy from a local shop. This will allow you to get a used saxophone at a reasonable price (like a used car, someone has already eaten the depreciation) and you know that the horn is in playable condition.
Hope this helps Ron.
If you have any other questions, feel free to ask them here…helen
I HAVE A SAX ITS 45 YEARS OLD ORGANI ALTO SAX ANY CLUE TO VALUE IS IT GOOD
Did you by chance mean “Borgani”?
Here’s a link to a page on my website that will help you estimate the value of your horn.
here are a couple of pics of an old sax I came across. the serial number is shown in the 1 pic. it is a conn. its in decent condition. pads look good and all keys present and not stuck. any idea of approximate age and value?
thanks!
Hi Kerry.
I only see 1 pic. The one with the serial # is missing. I’d need to see it (and the number that’s most likely under it) to tell you more. Also, check out this page on my website, it will tell you how to determine the approximate value of your saxophone.
Conn made in Kenosha Wisconsin.USA
Not very expensive. student model.
Greetings, I came across an old Selmer Tenor Mark VI that belonged to my father in law, which seems to be in good condition. Any suggestions on where to sell it in the northeast? I think it’s from 1970.
Hi Daren.
Whereabouts are you in the Northeast? There are lots of places that I can recommend, but you might want to pick one close to you.
If you tell me what city you’re in, we should be able to get you connected up with someone who can look it over, and let you know what you might reasonably expect to get for it.
Regards,
Helen
Hi same question maybe right page. I have a Binadi alto silver plate, but I can find nothing about this. Guessing its a stencil of some kind. Can any one help. s/n 80xx
Thanks lindsay
Hi lindsay. Yup, you’re on the right page.
Based on the photo you attached, I was going to say you have one of the rare, left-handed saxophones. 😉 Then I realized that you had managed to horizontally flip the photo, so I fixed it for you.
Seriously though, you’re right, what you have there is a stencil horn. A stencil of what though is the question. Unfortunately that 1 picture doesn’t give me enough to go on.
If you would like me to figure out what kind of sax you’ve got there, please check out this page on my website, it will give you an idea of what kinds of photos will allow me to help you the most. Then, send the photos to my gmail account.
Hope this helps….helen