NB: To keep my database happy, I have moved the bass stencil saxophones to their own page.
Over the past few years I have been tracking various used, mostly vintage, Orsi bass saxophone models, as well as the various features they have. Many of these Orsi bass saxes seem to come from a music store in Italy. Why that would be is somewhat of a mystery. Did Italy have some kind of use for bass saxophones that we are not aware of? Were there saxophone orchestras operating in the country that regularly ordered bass saxophones?
Unfortunately, overall Orsi hasn’t got a great reputation in the saxophone world, and quite frankly, neither do their bass saxes when you compare them to Conns, Bueschers, or any of the vintage or modern European horns. More recently, the company has stopped its saxophone production altogether, and now only lists what appear to be Asian-made stencil horns carrying the Orsi name on their website. And as you will be notice, the company’s offerings go no lower than a low A baritone. Not a bass—or the famed Orsi contra—are to be seen.
I am going to start this page off a little differently than others, in that I’m going to provide a chart that shows the Orsi and Orsi-stencilled bass saxophones that I have encountered. The software I am using for this chart allows for updates, so as I come across more in time, this chart can be updated.
Afterwards we’ll take a bit of a deeper dive into what’s what with these rather mysterious Italian-made monsters of the deep.
| Model | Level/Type | Style | Finish | Overall appearance | Construction | Range | # of L palm keys | # of R palm keys | Bis Bb? | Bell keys | Left pinkie cluster | # of strap rings | Pant guard | F# key guard | Key guards | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Orsi #2935 | Concertino | Student | Long wrap (vintage American style) | Clear Lacquer? Silver? | Vintage | Post to body | B-Eb | 2 | 2 | No | Left-sided low B | Old-style 3 keys with no rollers (?) | 3 | No | No F# key | Sheet metal with mini decorative "pearls" |
| Orsi #? | Concertino | Student | Long wrap (vintage American style) | Lacquer with nickel plated keys | Vintage | Post to body | B-Eb | 2 | 2 | No | Right-sided low B | Old-style 3 keys with 2 rollers | 2 | No | No F# key | Sheet metal with mini decorative "pearls" missing |
| Orsi #? | Concertino | Student | Long wrap (vintage American style) | Lacquer with nickel plated keys | Vintage | Post to body | B-Eb | 2 | 2 | No | Left-sided low B | Old-style 3 keys with no rollers | 3 | No | No F# key | Sheet metal with mini decorative "pearls" |
| Orsi #3547 | 119F | Pro | Long wrap (vintage American style) | Lacquer | More modern | Post to body | Bb-F (F#) | 3 | 2 | Yes | Right-sided | Compact, more modern with 4 rollers | 2 | 3 | Yes | Sheet metal with mini-decorative "pearls" on the bell keys, and felt showing through the adjustment hole on the bow |
| Orsi #4269 | 119F | Pro | Long wrap (vintage American style) | Lacquer | More modern | Post to body | Bb-F | 3 | 3 | Yes | Right-sided | Compact, more modern with 4 rollers | 2 | 2 | Yes | Sheet metal with felt showing through adjustment holes |
| Orsi #0679 | ? | Pro? | Long wrap (vintage American style) | Silver plated | Vintage | Post to body | Bb-Eb | 2 | 2? | Yes | Left-sided | ? | ? | ? | No | Wire |
| Orsi #4248 | ? | Intermediate? | Long wrap (vintage American style) | Gold lacquer | Vintage | Post to body | Bb-Eb | 2 | 1 | No | Right-sided | Old-style with 4 vertical keys, no rollers | 3 | No | No F# key | Sheet metal with felts showing through adjustment holes |
| Martelle #2037 | Improved | Pro | Long wrap (vintage American style) | Silver plated | Vintage | Post to body | Bb-Eb | 2? | 1? | Yes | Left-sided | Old-style with 3 rollers | 2 | Most likely not | No | Sheet metal with mini decorative "pearls" |
| Metro #A4149 | ? | ? | Long wrap (vintage American style) | Delacquerd | Vintage | Post to body | B-Eb | 2 | 2 | Yes | Left-sided | Old-style with the nail file G#, 3 rollers | 2 | No | No | Wire |
Traits shared by all Orsi bass saxophones in this chart
A quick glance at this chart shows a variety of features. However, all the horns shared these two things in common:
- They were all built in the same style as the JK and vintage American horns when it comes to what is known as their “wrap”. Where the neck is attached is quite a ways down from the upper bow of the horn, compared the “short”, AKA “French wrap” horns such as Selmer. This long wrap style is associated with a bigger bore, and generally bigger and fuller bass sound. Presumably Orsi bass saxes share these bore and tonal characteristics with their JK and American cousins.
- The construction is post to body rather than ribbed or mini ribbed. Makes sense. A bass sax is heavy enough, and you don’t need the added weight that ribbing will add.
Orsi bass sax # 2935
Model: Concertino
According to a vintage Orsi catalogue I was sent over a decade ago, the Concertino was one of two models of student horns that Orsi built. Although the catalogue does not show a Concertino model bass, it is possible that Orsi offered at least 2 levels of saxophones at any given time.
Why is the possible? Because Orsi built instruments upon request, and offering two different models at two different price points provided more selling options.
However, the Concertino model is shown as being keyed from low Bb to high F, whereas the Normal model shown on the same page is keyed from low B to high F.
If we compare this bass saxophone’s features to the features we find the Orsi’s Normal line of student horns, we find the left pinkie cluster appears to look the same, and the range is similar (keyed down to low B). If we think about the vintage Buescher True Tone or Conn New Wonder bass saxophones, their features were not upgraded at the same rate as the other horns in the model series. So perhaps this Orsi Concertino makes sense then?
Whatever the case, this Concertino in no way resembles Orsi bass model 119 that was shown in the catalogue I was sent, which is considered their step-up/pro model.
**Note** Due to the angle at which the photos of the left pinkie cluster were taken, it is possible that the horn may indeed have 2 rollers like Concertino bass #? immediately below. ∨∨∨∨
Orsi bass sax # ?
Model: Concertino
This Concertino bass by Orsi appeared on eBay by the same Italian music store that has listed so many others.
Since this horn’s ad is only written in Italian, I had to rely on Google Translate for this:
Description
Orsi bass sax Concertino Lacquered nickel-plated keysAccessories not included
• CustodyNote
The instrument has undergone the following interventions in our laboratory:
• COMPLETE replacement of felts, needles, bearings and corks;
• Mechanics adjustment and polishing;
• Internal and external washing with sanitized products;* A functional test is carried out before shipment.
Orsi bass sax # ?
Model: Concertino
Here we have another unserialized Concertino bass saxophone listed for sale by the same music store in Italy that seems to attract Orsi basses. The store’s description doesn’t really tell us anything about this horn, but FWIW, here is what they write about the horn:
Description
Orsi bass sax Concertino Lacquered Nickel-plated keys usedAccessories not included
• CaseNotes
The instrument underwent the following interventions in our laboratory:
• COMPLETE replacement of felts, needles, bearings and corks;
• Adjustment and polishing of the mechanics;
• Internal and external washing with sanitizing products;* A functional test is carried out before shipment. The instrument is covered by a 1 year guarantee.
If you look at the chart at the very top of the page and compare the features of the 3 Concertino bass saxophones, you’ll immediately notice that they are different in some of their features.
Major differences between the 3 Concertino bass saxophones shown here:
Finish
- #2935 is silver plated, while the two without serials are two-tone.
Low B location
- While all three horns are only keyed to low B, #2935, as well as the second unserialized horn, have left-sided low B keys. The first unserialized horn shown has its low B key on the right side of the bell.
Left pinkie cluster
- The left pinkie cluster on the first unserialized horn is old school, and has 3 keys with 2 rollers. It is hard to make on the #2935, but it almost looks like it has no rollers for its 3 keys. On the second unserialized Concertino bass, there are no rollers. It is really old school.
Strap rings
- The first unserialized Concertino only has 2 strap rings, while #2935 has 3. The second Concertino with no serial has 3 strap rings.
Orsi bass sax #3547
Model: 119F
Bass sax #3547 is an updated version of Orsi’s 119 pro bass saxophone that is depicted in the vintage Orsi catalogue. This horn was listed on eBay in September 2015 by the same music store that deals with so many of these horns, you’d think no one else on the planet was selling them.
What I thought very curious at the time, was that the shop described its range as:
…. discendende al Sib, ascendente al Fa#….
Now admittedly my Italian sucks, so I could easily have it wrong. Did they really mean to write that the horn’s range was from low Bb to high F#? I was never clear on the high F#. I still can’t see a high F# key on this horn. The key work for a high F on the upper bow is certainly there, but a high F#? Where would it be?
Here are a couple of other bass saxophones to compare it to: 1. A Jinyin stencil keyed to high F. 2. A Conn 14M keyed to high F. 3. Orsi 4269 that is also keyed to high F.
At this point maybe I’m guessing it was a typo?? If you know for sure, please drop me a note.
Orsi bass sax # 4269
Model: 119F
The 119F, was built as a pro model horn. It, along with the other 119F (#3547) shown above ^^^^, has among the most bells and whistles of any of Orsi’s bass saxes I have seen to date.
Another trait that these two bass saxes from Orsi share, is that they are really only the only true modern ones of the lot based on their build—and even that is a bit of stretch if you look at the way the bell keys operate…. The 1940s called, they want their key design back.
Major differences between the two, Model 119F bass saxophones shown here:
Finish
- While both are lacquered, the colour of the lacquer appears to be vastly different. Bass #3547 has a more warm, honey tone lacquer, while #4269 is the more traditional cooler lacquer finish we see on brass horns. That said, lighting can also have played a large role in the differences we see in colour. Therefore, making any sweeping generalizations about finish colours should be avoided.
Left Palm Keys
- One of the features in which these two 119F models differ most, is in the left palm keys. Whereas #4269 has 3 distinct keys, and is keyed up to high F according to the previous owner, #3547 has a very different arrangement of its palm keys. As noted above, its range is also a bit unclear.
Right Palm keys
- Related to the left palm keys, are the right ones. Bass #4269 has 3 palm keys—albeit with the high E key offset quite a bit towards the front of the horn. Whereas #3547 has only 2 right palm keys. How does the horn reach high E and above? I would love to know, but it clearly does.
Without the ability to play them it is of course impossible to say anything with certainty. However, just based on the photos alone, it appears to me that bass #3547 is the more solid, and better constructed of the two horns. Of course I could be completely wrong, and likely am. 😆
Orsi bass sax # 0679
Model: ?
This oddity popped up while I was doing research for this new Orsi bass sax page in July 2023. What model is it? I don’t know. How old is it? I don’t know that either. Is it a pro model? I am guessing that it is, but with only three photos, it is impossible to say for sure.
I can say that of all the Orsi bass saxophones that I have seen to date, the only one that #0679 resembles is the bass that is stencilled Metro and is #A4149. (Full description and image gallery of the Metro on the Orsi bass stencil page.)
Yes, this old-timer too comes from the shop in Italy that seems to be the sole music store that sells vintage Orsi basses. Although they offered nothing of real value in their description of the horn, I offer the Google Translate version here for you anyway, just to keep things complete:
Description
USED BASS SAX ORSI VINTAGE M. 0679Notes
The instrument underwent the following interventions in our laboratory:
• Replacement WHERE NECESSARY of felts, needles, bearings and corks;
• Adjustment and polishing of the mechanics;
• Internal and external washing with sanitizing products;* A functional test is carried out before shipment. The instrument is covered by a 1 year guarantee.
Orsi bass sax # 4248
Model: ?
Bass sax #4248 is yet another Orsi bass saxophone mystery. Its features—or lack thereof—place it clearly in the non-pro category of saxophones produced by the Italian manufacturer.
It was being sold a few years years ago by the same music store in Italy that sold so many of the other Orsi bass saxophones shown on this page. And once again I am relying on Google translate for the description of the horn:
Description
Orsi bass sax lacquered, serial number 4248 lab grave [not translated] .Accessories not included
• Custodia [not translated]Note
The instrument has undergone the following interventions in our laboratory:
• COMPLETE replacement of felts, needles, bearings and corks;
• Mechanics adjustment and polishing;
• Internal and external washing with sanitized products;* A functional test is carried out before shipment.
Accessories aside, as noted above, what’s most notable about this bass are three things: 1. Its lack of model identification. 2. How its serial # falls between two modern, pro horns, and 3. Its rather bizarre collection of features that I have until now not seen on any Orsi saxophone before.
- The seller does not name a model in the sale, nor could I find one in the photos of the engraving. I have no idea what model or model # Orsi would have given this horn, and since Orsi has a rather poor track record of replying to queries, I am not holding out hope that they would answer a question about this, or any, bass sax.
- This horn is serial #4248. It falls between the two pro horns 4269 and 3547. Presumably it was built in between these other two bass saxophones sometime. When? Don’t know. To the best of my knowledge there is not a published serial # chart of Orsi horns anywhere. And, as already stated, Orsi generally doesn’t respond to email communications. That said, any communications attempts with the company that I am aware of, have been in English. Perhaps if a person could communicate with them in Italian they might actually get a response? Just putting that out there to the universe… Any Italian sax players ever read my site???? Drop me a note please. Thank you…
- When it comes to the features this horn has, check out the following oddities:
- Only 1 right palm key. What does it do? Not sure. Anyone want to take a stab at it?
- The left pinkie keys are straight from horns we saw in the 1880s. Here is my Buffet baritone from 1886 for you to compare it to.
So what is the take from all of this?
Orsi made a lot of different models and styles of bass saxophones over the years, and I must admit, I have not done a very good job of keeping track of these horns. I suspect that there are quite a few that I haven’t seen, and many more that were sold that never even appeared on line. I am curious if Orsi kept good records of their models, and if they did, if they would ever consider sharing them with the world?
Given how relatively rare Orsi saxophones are in this part of the world, it’s not like we would have the opportunity to pop into a shop and try a bunch of these babies out when they come in. I would love to be able to try even just 1, and compare it to my Couf Superba I.
Unfortunately Orsi saxophones do not have a great reputation among players. My experience is limited to a stencil of their Improved tenor. Yes, I used to think my LaMonte was a Conertino, but after studying my horn’s pics and comparing them to other Orsi horns and the catalogue images for what seems like hours, it clearly isn’t. The left pinkie cluster and left hand keys clearly indicate its Improved model status.
Due to this limited experience with Orsi horns, I can’t draw any conclusions about their bass saxophones, since that would be the equivalent of drawing conclusions about a True Tone bass after only playing a True Tone tenor. Or for a non-saxophone comparison: It would be like comparing tomatoes to bananas. Sure, both are fruits, but obviously they are about as far apart on the fruit spectrum as you can get. 😉
As for why a shop in the small, Italian hill town of Gragnano, which is a municipality in the Metropolitan City of Naples, has so many vintage Orsi bass saxophones in stock regularly, that is a very good question. This is the same shop that has had a listing a new Orsi contra for €59,000 for YEARS. I kid you not. It has been on the auction site for at least 3 years now.
Now where would Raffaele Inghilterra get a NEW Orsi contra from? I am guessing this is actually a display model, since to the best of my knowledge Orsi has stopped making saxophones altogether—not to mention that photo has been around almost since the dawn of the Millennium. The contra that’s for sale also appears to be in a display cabinet specifically built for it. This display cabinet is prominent on the store’s website and YouTube channel.
As stated at the top, if you look at Orsi’s website today, all you see are what appear to be Asian-made stencil horns. Or, maybe the rumour is wrong and Orsi still makes its own saxophones, and they just look like Asian-made stencils?
But getting back to the bigger horns, Raffaele Inghilterra seems to have quite a large selection of saxophones in stock. Maybe they are one of Italy’s larger, speciality music stores, and therefore attract those selling their horns? Just a thought. At this point my lack of Italian is seriously hindering any further serious research.
If someone from Italy ever happens across this, I would so much appreciate if you would help me out. If you are familiar with the Raffaele Inghilterra store, or Orsi bass saxophones, please email me. Thank you.
In the meantime, we’ll continue to consider this a work in progress. As I made aware of more Orsi bass saxophones, I will further expand this chart.
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